49 Comments Add your own

• 1. Frank Wallace  |  December 13th, 2007 at 8:20 pm

  Prior to the start of this class, I had no idea that China was going to be such a major part of my life in the future. I am thankful that we will be ahead of the game by going on this trip, especially when business leaders say “they expect China to be Britain’s single most important export market by 2009, worth 10% of global revenues.” I am sure that this statement also applies to the United States. As far as obtaining an MBA in China, I think the pros don’t quite outweigh the cons enough to make me want to get an MBA there. The main reason is that western schools have been doing this for longer and better, and like the article said “in most cases the MBA programs attended by China’s top students are very much the product of Western educational institutions.” This just goes to show that our way of teaching is best since the Chinese have benchmarked us, but the Chinese are closing in on teaching the same way. I still think that at this point it is best to stay in the United States to get an MBA, but it is extremely helpful and almost necessary that the MBA program has some focus on working in China.

• 2. Catriona Banks-Orosco  |  December 16th, 2007 at 12:34 pm

  I am surprised that the study of China’s markets is that unusual. Kudos to Cal Poly for taking the lead and making this tour a required part of the MBA intensive. I would imagine we will only scratch the surface of how business operates in China during our short visit. The exposure will be valuable in driving home the concepts we are reading about. I can understand the value in staying for an extended time to gain necessary skills and practice what has been learned. I hope I can integrate this knowledge in the future. I recently to spoke with a retailer in France that does not want me to move production to China because it adds too many extra costs and hurdles, making the buyer’s surplus zero. I know China is still going to be a valuable part of this experience.

• 3. Robyn Bowie  |  December 16th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

  Looks like our program should think about adding Mandarin to the curiculum in the future. China is certainly turning into the place to be to get your MBA. This makes me glad that our program does a trip to China, something that will be an important part of our lives as business people in the future. We need this trip to stay ahead of the curve. Of course if we were Chinese, we would probably choose to spend our two years getting an MBA in China even if we had the chance to go abroad. The article “China’s B School Boom” talks about how Chinese students stay ahead of the curve by staying in China. The skills of MBA graduates are already in great demand and staying in China to complete their degree helps them stay in touch with the people who can hook them up with the right job. This makes a lot of sense. Once again the reverse of the brain drain is happening in China. Instead of leaving China for education and not returning, students are staying for education as well as jobs. This is definitely a trend that will help China’s economy stay white hot. Good for them for educating their next top managers by racing through a B-school evolution that “it took US B-schools more than half a century to accomplish.”

• 4. Chris Carr  |  December 16th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

  Good comments.

  Remember that adding a language requirement to the (any) program, to do it right and well, will mean longer time to degree completion, stress, and $$$ expense.

  One of the questions I would suggest that students consider asking as part of the trip and try to find the answer to over there is, “If I don’t have the time or money to learn Mandarin, what is a realistic Plan B that will more than get me by if/when I am over there in the future?” I have an answer to that which works for myself, but you will need to find your own road in this regard and what works for you.

  Further, note that while adding Mandarin to the curriculum will attract some, others might be turned away from the program because a language was being required (at all) or the one that was being offered was not French or Spanish or other (one year one fellow demanded that it be German; the next year it was Farsi).

  We are such a small under market priced program that it’s not feasible at this time to offer a number of MBA language options (unless folks are willing to pay a LOT more for tuition, or the state kicks in more money).

  Thus, be careful what you wish for ….

  When we look at things with our business hats on, the picture and analysis can look very different than if/when we look at things with our business trained hats on. Keep this in mind in your future careers as you manage and lead your own employees!

• 5. Angie Q. Dip  |  December 17th, 2007 at 1:50 am

  I agree with Frank that I would rather stay here in America to get my MBA, since the Chinese are adopting the US model of business schools. I am also thankful that Cal Poly made the China trip a requirement, as I am sure that would look extremely good on my resume. Since there still seems to be a lack of good quality in some of the business schools in China, I think it is best for people to stay in the US now to attend business schools, but definitely consider the business schools in China once the quality reaches or surpasses the level of quality in the US.

  I agree with Robyn that Mandarin should definitely be added to our curriculum, as that would be very beneficial for us. Not only would it look good on the resume, which would increase our chances of getting hired, but it would also be of assistance for us when we bargain at the Chinese markets when we go to China! Jokes aside, in addition, it would also help for those who are interested in pursuing an international business career in the future. Although this would mean more money and more stress, plus a longer time to complete and get our degree, I definitely think it is necessary and worth the cost. Some students may be turned away from the program because of the language requirement, but if they are truly trying to get a business degree, they should understand the importance of learning Mandarin for the future. However, I do understand not everyone intends on pursuing an international business career, so one other option may be to offer a Mandarin class as one of the alternatives for the electives.

  If people do not have the time or money to learn Mandarin, a realistic Plan B that may help to get them by when they are in China in the future may be to get one of those self-learning CDs, or to hire a trusted interpreter in China.

• 6. Chris Carr  |  December 17th, 2007 at 8:29 am

  This is some good stuff. Let’s probe deeper,and do some down and dirty, informal market research.

  For the average person and MBA student in California who is in their mid-twenties, to become even reasonably proficient in Mandarin, while studying here, would require at least six (6) months of full-time studying (meaning you study Mandarin and only Mandarin, and are not taking other business courses because you are running so fast and so hard to learn how to speak the language in order to do it well and right). This also assume you are pretty darn good with languages. To be become pretty good at reading and speaking Mandarin, figure a year, maybe two.

  If that meant it took you 1.5 years to 2.5 years to complete the Cal Poly MBA degree, rather than the just under one year (assuming you are an accelerated track student, how many would still apply and come to the program? And how many would not because that opportunity cost is too high?

  One reason I ask because in business, customers saying they will come, and customers putting money down and stepping up is a whole different issue. E,g., anybody remember how Apple miscalculated on its I-phone? In their focus groups, people said, “$600, no problem!” Then the reality hit and not enough people were buying it, and hence, Apple put its tail between its legs and dropped the price by $200.

  Another item nobody has yet asked or gone out and done their homework on … if the opportunity cost of learning Mandarin is too high, and let’ say you go there 4 to 6 times a year on business, how much does a good interpreter cost you? See what you can find out and report back.

  Additional question: Is the best way to approach this to use “the market”? I.e., for those that wish to pursue language study, direct them to a place like the Monterey Language Institute, whose core competency is language instruction or direct them to a language school in Beijing, to pursue on their own, at their own cost and on their own time? That way, it’s market driven — for those that want it, they can get it. Is econ theory in action better, in this case, than a program or government mandate? What is best for the consumer? What is best for the firm offering the product? What is best for the taxpayers who fund universities? Discuss.

• 7. Tai Massion  |  January 1st, 2008 at 5:07 pm

  I am just fine with not learning Mandarin. If it was a requirement I would have not applied (sorry- not so great with languages). I looked into the Monterey Language Institute (b/c I am not so great with languages), they have an MBA and many languages to choose from, so why would Cal Poly need to compete with that? I like that business schools are offered in China, but I would have not attended. I think it would be valuable for someone who knew, for sure, they would be making China a large part of their career. For us, undecided or unknowing, our program is perfect. I appreciate the fact that we are learning about China and India and will be going abroad for this short period. I think we will all get a lot out of the experience.

• 8. Brandi Eng-Rohrbach  |  January 25th, 2008 at 12:08 am

  Honestly, I don’t feel that you can effectively learn a language without being impressed in the language and being forced to learn it out of necessity. I think any program that attempted to teach it in a year would be ineffective. I think a market system is usually the most efficient way of solving problems. Thus if there is a demand in the market for programs that get their value added by offering Mandarin in conjunction with an MBA. Then it would be wise for such programs to exist. If you build it then they will come (assuming demand exists),

  Actually, I thought the poll that was on the CNN article was very interesting. Most people care about the prestige of the program more than anything else. I found it surprising that this was valued more than value for money. I guess a name matters more to most people than the content. This made me wonder if this is driven by market demand for only certain well-known schools with established name brands. I hope that employers care more about content than name. Time will tell.

• 9. Deanna Haskell  |  January 29th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

  These articles clearly show the importance of studying China in our MBA program. I was actually surprised to learn that the Chinese are rapidly expanding their MBA programs and that they draw students from other countries. Particularly because they follow a western model. I would personaly not want to attend a Chinese MBA program because they are fairly new and I would rather attend a program that is more established, but is keeping up with new developments. I also think that it is important to understand how different countries do business and therefore think that it is beneficial for MBA programs to have exchange programs.

• 10. Ryan Moore  |  February 4th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

  I would echo the sentiments of Dr. Carr on the “Learn to Speak Mandarin” idea. There is no way a course or two mixed into the curriculum would be beneficial. I took Spanish for two years in high school and can recollect about half a dozen words as a result of those studies. I do however know how to speak Spanish fairly well due to the fact that I have worked with Hispanics for several years. You must study for years and / or submerse yourself in the culture and live and or work in that country for an extended period of time to have any chance to absorb enough of the language to be useful in business. The commitment to understand the Mandarin language (or to read and write it) would require as much or more of a commitment that that of obtaining an MBA in the first place.

• 11. Nick Miura  |  February 6th, 2008 at 9:21 am

  What caught my eye in these articles was not so much the rise of the MBA programs in China, but the decline of stateside MBAs. I believe it is fairly obvious that China as well as India are growing at rapid rates, and in such, will need a new generation of business leaders and educated management to make proper decisions. The material one learns in an MBA program is invaluable towards those ends. Furthermore, I agree that China and India should be studied in any MBA curriculum simply because the two countries will play a huge roll in our business careers and everyday life. I applaud CalPoly’s efforts to realize this and stay ahead of the curve and I am looking forward to seeing China and India first hand.

  That being said, why has the demand to obtain American MBA degrees declined? Thinking in economic terms, that means that an MBA in America is seeing a relative value decline on the world stage. I’m sure part of the reason for this is many of the students who attended these schools were foreigners who now have a cheaper Chinese alternative, with a potentially higher payoff. Now all these Chinese and Indian students don’t have to leave home and almost have a guaranteed job after school putting them automatically in the countries’ elite. But are there other reasons? Has growth stalled enough in the US that qualified business leaders are no longer in such high demand? I think a very relevant question here is what do students expect their American or more specifically their CalPoly MBA to get them in the future?

  So, would I want to go to school in China? No. Do I think Cal Poly Business School should offer Mandarin classes? No. And my reasoning is I don’t particularly want to do business in China. I want to work in the United States, be close to family, live in an environment which I’m comfortable in. If I had been interested in oversea business, I probably would have gone to another school, possibly even overseas. My motivation for coming to business school is to learn the basics of business and management so I can take this knowledge to engineering project management. Cal Poly is not stopping anybody from learning Mandarin, and if people really believe it is that important and it is necessary to get ahead in the business world, I have to ask, what’s stopping you?

• 12. Chris Carr  |  February 6th, 2008 at 11:47 am

  Good and thoughtful comment, Nick.

  You raise an interesting issue that I would like to explore further and for people to think about:

  1. Many of you have started to see through this course how the world is changing. Now, in 2008, you (and me) may still be able to reside, 100 percent of the time in California and survive, do well, have a high quality of life, etc. But what do you predict for your children and their children and their children — will they have the luxury of staying in California, close to family, living full time in an environment in which they are comfortable?

  2. If the answer is no, when do you think is the best time to start training a society for when that day comes that they may have to be more mobile — now, the next generation, the generation after that, yesterday?

  Discuss. I appreciate that these questions can be unfathomable (and unpopular) in places like SLO and Cali (paradise), because we think paradise will go on forever. But what if it does not?

  As a personal example of where I (Carr, the gadfly) am coming from is this — I have no idea, no idea at all, how I will afford to send my kids to a decent US college in 15 years given how the cost is rising in relation to income, and I am one of the lucky ones and have two incomes in family (but also no trust fund or parents/family with money that will come to my rescue).

  I have thus started to think, a lot, about exposing them to the good, and very cheap, universities in other countries such as part of Europe, Mexico (does have a few), South America, and, of course China. Today, in 2008, they see daddy get on a plane to go to this far away and undeveloped place like China. They have never been there, and they still see China as a place as far away as the moon. However, I get on the plane with a smile on my face so they don’t see doing regular work and trips abroad as this big deal or production or something that is out of the ordinary.

  One of my hopes, is, if/when the day comes when I have to say, “I can’t afford to send you to a decent school in the US”, they may at least be open to a school abroad and don’t see the world as big of a place as others. This is a long winded way of saying that “I” can get away with California comfort, but they may not be able to, and I need to get them geared up for that day so they can survive, stand on their own, and not buy into the current American victim mentality. And then my hope is that for their kids, it will be even less of a big deal.

  This is a new issue for us Americans. Tribes like the Brits, Chinese, Indians, Japanese, Jews, Muslims, etc., have been traveling the globe for years and in my experience, are much more comfortable with change and lack of comfort. For a good book on this topic, see, e.g., Joel Kotkin, Tribes: How Race, Religion, and Identity Determine Success in the New Global Economy, 1994 (Random House, Inc.)

• 13. David Zarcone  |  February 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

  I have to agree with Frank and admit I was ignorant to the fact that China was going to be such an important aspect of my future as a businessman. I had no idea about any of this until the grad program. Although I am very grateful that masters students will be ahead of the curve, I still wish these topics were introduced in my undergrad studies.

  I find it amazing that businesses will be hiring Chinese MBA graduates to make up for the shortfalls in international business, mostly the lack of language skills. Although it would be nice to have a required language class familiarizing us with basic language skills, this would be a costly addition to our program. I am going to utilize the time we have in China and India to try to pick up as much usefull communication skills (both verbal and non-verbal) that I can so I will be better prepared in the future.

• 14. Chris White  |  February 17th, 2008 at 10:39 pm

  I too was a bit naïve about the powerful economic rise of China and India and their affects on the global economy before starting this course. I was also somewhat against globalization, based on job losses, etc. But now I have a much better understanding of international business and I realize that there are many positive aspects. I think we are fortunate to have this opportunity to not only travel to China and India, but to study these countries from multiple aspects.
  In response to China’s business school reform, I just finished reading Robyn Meredith’s The Elephant and the Dragon and one of the things that I found interesting was that part of the requirement for opening a factory in China was to teach the Chinese management Western methods of running a business. The Chinese government is really serious about developing their economy and they are getting free lessons from American companies.

• 15. Dena Malloy  |  February 21st, 2008 at 7:11 pm

  I find it strange that Chinese business schools would adopt a western way of teaching their MBA’s. From what we have learned so far, doing business in China or India is vastly different from doing business in the US. Teaching US style efficiency (and if what you mean by US style is actually the ideas we took from the Japanese) would be very beneficial to Chinese MBA’s but I doubt that some of our courses like OB, Law, or even Accounting and Finance would be very useful.

  Schools like Cal Poly, in my opinion, really level the playing field for students with abilities that want to succeed. Dr. Carr, you should definitely send your kids to Cal Poly! Unfortunately, I will probably be unable to send my kids to a private school like I attended because the cost will be prohibitive. Quality schools like Cal Poly, however, help defer the cost of living in an expensive state like CA!

• 16. Chris Carr  |  February 22nd, 2008 at 11:02 am

  China’s adoption of western ways and business methods such as the teaching MBA’s is not unusual and in many ways makes sense.

  It is their commonly executed “leap frog strategy” — rather then kill oneself starting from scratch, instead adopt something close, cherry pick what you like, and in time jettison the rest and develop what you need, thereby leaving something in place that fits what you need.

  Same thing happened with Lenovo’s purchase of IBM. Rather than build your own brand, if you have the money just go buy one that is already respected (in this case buy part of the IBM product line) and overnight you are legit.

  These are some smart, smart folks.

• 17. Chris Kirk  |  February 23rd, 2008 at 4:25 pm

  The most important line in the article is the very first one - MBAs can’t afford to ignore China. The talent and growth of the graduate students far outweighs any other country. The fact that so many companies are now looking to China to recruit their MBA talent proves that the trend is real and here to stay. The first article made a great point that students should demand that a module of their graduate work be dedicated to China and its effect on the economy. The fact remains that either directly or indirectly, every business is in some way affected by the Chinese rise to power. Although I see the value in traveling to China to get an MBA, I don’t think it would be something that I would ever pursue. I appreciate the exposure that the graduate program at Cal Poly is giving me and believe that it provides a good stepping stone for future international business experience should I choose to take my career in that direction.

• 18. Pierre Michael  |  February 24th, 2008 at 12:45 am

  I found it really interesting that monks are completing their MBAs in China. That just seems really weird and oxymoronic to me. Aren’t they supposed to live tranquil lives away from the churning market societies?

  Anyways, I agree, to some extent with Nick Miura. I came here to learn the fundamentals of business and engineering management. This shouldn’t however, prevent one from being open to the possibilities of international business. We’ve seen how the internet has made the world a smaller place. In 20 years, all business could be international business. So, although China and Mandarin are what’s on the plate today, it could be India, Malaysia, or somewhere in Africa tomorrow. The point is, we need to be receptive to business opportunities globally, at all times. I am very grateful that we will have the opportunity to visit China and India and witness first hand how business is done.

  The increase in Chinese middle managers and decrease in American ones is somewhat worrisome. Competition is increasing and that’s what you’ll have to deal with. Find out what you are best at and leverage that against your competitors. If you end up without a job in the US, consider moving to an Asian country touting your English prowess.

• 19. Jesse Bilsten  |  February 28th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

  I’d love to think of myself as unique when I enter the market place with an MBA however I firmly believe after taking only 2 quarters of classes that an MBA is essential to anyone who’s involved in the business world. The education I’m receiving is useful at all levels of the corporate world and even more so as an entrepreneur.

  I was discussing learning Mandarin with my parents recently and they mentioned that even though it would be useful if I did business in China the most important languages will be the ones I use everyday and/or exist in the area I do business in predominately which in California will always be Spanish/Mexican. I still have a strong desire to learn Mandarin as languages fascinate me and being able to communicate with the Chinese will be useful regardless of where I do business since it’s looking like any manufacturing will be coming from there.

• 20. Rob Belloni  |  March 1st, 2008 at 1:39 am

  In regards to the language question: I would not have attended the Cal Poly program if a language requirement lengthened the program to 1.5 or 2 years. Not only do I believe it would be impossible to learn a new language in 6 months, the costs (cash, opportunity, life) would have been too high for me to bear.

  I got a small taste of China in my former employment, where I trained a co-worker in Shenzen who was assigned as an onsite engineer at the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC). To say that I had no clue about Chinese culture or how to work effectively with this guy is an understatement. I hope to be much more prepared come July 5.

  In August I’ll be starting at a large corporation in their services division. 400 of their internal support engineers are located in India and I will be, without question, working with them and the issues surrounding them. I hope that our time in India will give me a leg up in this regard. Perhaps I will even meet some of them along the way during our trip. The world is flat isn’t it?

  As far as where I will send my kids to college, I sure hope Cal Poly is still around when the time comes. I believe in the learn by doing approach, and believe the school embodies the fact that a great education can be delivered in an economical package.

• 21. Simeon Trieu  |  March 1st, 2008 at 9:14 pm

  Whoa whoa, while I agree that China is up and coming, let’s not call it doomsday for American MBAs yet. It is true that learning Mandarin and Chinese business will be a new skill to acquire, but is it really that much of a difference from what businesspeople are used to? It is not up to the school to teach Mandarin. That is a personal choice that the student must make. Mandarin is not so ubiquitous in American business that it is absolutely necessary that everyone must take it. You must follow what is necessary for your path of learning. Only you can define those needs. Being in business means keeping up with the trends and following your gut that has gotten execs to adapt to the market. This is just a variation of those adaptations.

  But in terms of multinational corporations, we need execs today that can straddle the lines and do business both with the US and China. Americans need to wake up to educational goals in order to meet the demand that the world is now putting on them. If we had the spirit of the Chinese, that study is one of the most important goals in life, then maybe we would have an education system that developed our talents and abilities early in life, instead of later.

  Let’s take a step back, though, and examine the Chinese system of MBA study. They are copying the US verbatim. Unfortunately, a copy is a copy. It is not the real thing. While the subject material may be the same, there are some learning techniques that are lost in translation. The recruiters have this to say about the new graduates: “Even at top programs there’s a palpable sense of disappointment among recruiters, who say many graduates lack adequate English skills, problem-solving abilities, and a willingness to start at the bottom.” China’s system is still not good enough, and it may very well take them that extra time they tried to speed past (there are no shortcuts in life).

  But one thing is clear, an MBA is not only a good degree to get now, it is necessary to get a job. The article states that “with the percentage of high school students entering college on the upswing, from 11% in 1998 to 19% today, many deans believe China will soon see a surge in enrollments that will transform the MBA from an academic curiosity into a must-have degree. ‘When more people have a telephone, more people buy a telephone. The value increases,’ notes Guanghua’s Zhang. ‘If you have no MBA degree, you can’t find a job.’”

  I don’t think anybody expected China to just sit idly by while opportunity for MBA graduates existed. If there is a need, a market will arise to meet it. As stated in the article, “Students say Western management techniques will help Chinese companies compete against better-managed rivals. ‘Ten years ago the gap between Chinese companies and multinationals was huge,’ says Alan Wang, a CEIBS EMBA student in Shanghai and an exec at one of China’s biggest ice-cream makers. ‘Now everyone in China is aware of how important an MBA education is, and we’re quickly filling that space.’” How long will it take to replace all of the expats in China with local talent? It’s already being done. Start learning and adapt. Not only will the local talent work for less, but they will also have the same education as us. For now, the gap remains, but it is closing fast.

• 22. Darold Parsons  |  March 4th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

  I agree with the above statements. I would not have come to Cal Poly had it required me to take Mandarin in order for me to get my MBA. I do think it would be a great course to add as an elective for those interested in overseas business.
  I also would not have gone to China to get my MBA. The idea is a good one, but I plan on using my MBA to start my own business in California, hopefully. China is an up and coming country and will probably overtake the US in economy size someday. It will therefore be useful to know all that you can about doing business in and with China, but I do not foresee China in the cards for me. Or course anything can change.
  I also know that there will always be jobs here in California, what those jobs will be is impossible to tell. The future could change California to the call center for Asia. Will my kids be able to stay in California to live near me? I hope so. California has one of the highest costs of living in the world, and if it continues to climb as it has, then I doubt my Children will be able to do so, unless I strike it rich using my MBA skills.
  That being said, it is never too early to start preparing people, or allowing them to prepare themselves, for the future.

• 23. Matt Fencl  |  March 4th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

  I think that the idea of incorporating Chinese into the MBA curriculum is excellent, but for all practical purposes, impossible. Both Mandarin and Cantonese are not romantic languages, unlike English and Spanish. The similarities between English and Spanish make the transition from one to the other relatively easy. Even so, many students take several Spanish classes throughout their academic career (I took 6) and still can’t carry on a conversation with someone proficient in the language.

  Not only are Mandarin and Cantonese harder to learn, but they are also largely ignored by the current school system. In both high school and junior high, Chinese languages were not even an option (although German, Italian, and Latin were). If a student is to have a better chance learning another language, the best time to teach them is at these ages or younger. Without some exposure early on in their academic career, how can you expect to instruct students to become proficient at the graduate level?

• 24. Amy Linker  |  March 7th, 2008 at 9:07 pm

  I would not be surprised if China soon has an MBA program comparable to the top programs in the United States. With such a demand in China it is only a matter of time. With so many people obtaining an MBA in the PRC a need to decipher between excellent and mediocre programs will be a must. This will drive universities to upgrade their programs in order to obtain a highly recognizable status. In addition, MBA’s from China who can speak both English and Chinese will be of greater value to many U. S. firms looking to do business overseas.

  I believe that it will be important to tailor their programs towards their own style of business practices. It seems absurd that they would primarily use case studies from Harvard which document business problems found in our country which has been developed for quite some time. The problems that face companies in China, which as we all know is a developing country, must be a world’s difference from the United States. Of course they cannot come up with quality case studies over night. Harvard has been developing their case studies for decades. Time will improve their MBA programs.

• 25. Jeff Mohr  |  March 9th, 2008 at 8:59 am

  I agree with most here about not having or requiring Mandarin in the program. I feel our society is moving in the wrong direction with respect to education sometimes. More and more I hear people who seem to think the only way they can learn something is by going to school. We have so many great resources with libraries, bookstores, and the internet that most subjects can be learned on your own.

  I was intrigued by the Gobi Desert hiking trip the Chinese Business school went on together before the start of the program. It seems to be similar to our summer intro courses where we spent all day with each other (although a trip might have been more fun). They also move together through the program like us. I think this is a very effective strategy that allows quicker and deeper relationships to be formed. In my mind, I have learned just as much from the program itself as I have from interacting with others. It seems like this will be the direction most programs head in the future, especially since the bigger bond students hold to their classmates and their school, the bigger the donations will be when they make it big…

• 26. Nic Marlin  |  March 9th, 2008 at 11:10 am

  For so many years I have heard about and seen all of the Chinese students flooding US colleges and excelling rapidly. So, they are beginning to stay in China? My first thought–good, they are hard to compete with. I severely doubt, however, that Chinese higher education will be more valuable than the American higher education in the short run. I know that they are pushing to generate MBAs in China to satisfy the demand, but I have also heard that company’s hiring Chinese educated MBAs are complaining that they do not even know what transfer pricing is.

  In response to the conversation about learning Mandarin, I think this needs to be put into the US educational system starting from elementary school. The United States has warped sense that English is the only language that is necessary to know. In Germany, and many other developed countries, students are required to learn foreign languages from elementary school through college. I have an Italian friend, who grew up in Germany, and spoke five languages fluently before graduating college. When I first met her I was amazed that she spoke five languages. Having never lived in the US, she thought speaking five languages was pretty normal. My point is that the US educational system needs to transform is relation to importance of learning foreign languages if it is going to produce highly successful leaders in today’s global marketplace.

• 27. Shasta Palmer  |  March 9th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

  I agree with Tai, I’m not the best with language. So, if taking foreign language was part of this program I probably would not have attended. I also do not plan on perusing a career where I would need to be bilingual in Mandarin, so the benefit isn’t really there for what it would cost me to learn it. I could see where I may need to learn Spanish someday soon, but I would rather learn that from a place like Monterey language Institute, or a personal tutor.
  However, I am glad that we are going to China and India as part of the program, because I do think it will make me more marketable. Overall, I think the knowledge gained from this trip will help me understand the economy and how things are changing. Even if the trip doesn’t directly pertain to my career path, it will also aid me in making more informed decisions as a manager.

• 28. Kyle Tripp  |  March 9th, 2008 at 11:03 pm

  I agree with Dave that it would be nice to cover at least some of the topics o China in our undergrad. At least that way you might decide to learn Mandarin a little earlier or just look into topic on China more. I think if learning Mandarin was a requirement I might have applied somewhere else. I feel that China is an important place regarding business, but that doesn’t mean that every MBA student is going to have a job that is heavily involved in China. It is great that we get to have this experience. It will defiantly be beneficial in improving all of our live, even if it is not in the business world.

• 29. Matt Sprecher  |  March 11th, 2008 at 7:56 pm

  Wow, that CNN article blew my mind about how important it is to know about China as an MBA. The statistic about how much influence China will have over Britain by 2009 is a real shock to me. We have been hearing a lot about how China is catching up with us, but I had no idea that their influence in Britain and Europe was so strong. I think the best quote that described the importance of knowing about China as an MBA was, “Companies who fund MBA study for employees should demand China modules on all courses.”

  In terms of getting an MBA in China, I’m not too sure that the pros could out weigh the cons. Aside from my personal ties to being on the States, I think that the art of an MBA program was perfected in the US, and for that reason I believe it is superior. However, it does seem that China is beginning to catch up with America educationally in terms of MBA programs. Even though I do not feel going to China for an MBA is necessary, learning about it and having the opportunity to go and study it in person is an opportunity that will endless amounts of resourceful dividends.

• 30. Ashley Drum  |  March 12th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

  These two articles reinforce how fortunate we are to be traveling to China. Going off of Dr. Carr’s comment, I feel that Americans don’t seek an overseas education as much as other countries because we are much more isolated as a country and a culture. If you grew up in Europe, you start taking English classes, and most likely another language, from a very early age. Here in America, I was first introduced to another language in high school which is really too late to start if you are hoping to be fluent by the time you leave for college. Dr. Carr is also correct when he says that people will say that they want to learn Mandarin, but getting them to commit to it is a whole different barrier. If China continues to grow at the rate it is today, I will definitely consider signing up my kids to learn Mandarin at an early age to give them a competitive advantage.

• 31. Andria Greenlee  |  March 12th, 2008 at 6:49 pm

  I have mentioned this many times in my blog posts, but one of the main reasons I chose Cal Poly for my MBA was because of the emphasis that the program puts on business in China, and now India! I had not heard of any MBA programs that were doing this but from the sound of the CNN article, many ivy league schools are starting to catch on, as they should! China is impacting everyone,from business to education to the stock market, so it is crucial for all business people to having a good foundation in Asian business practices.

  While reading the Business Week article I made a connection to another article I read that talked about Chinese-American citizens returning to China for jobs that they felt gave them better opportunities than those in America. Just twenty years ago it would be shocking to hear someone say that there is more opportunity in China than in America. And even more shocking to claim that education is better there too. However, as the Business Week article suggests, more Chinese are opting to stay put and pursue MBA’s in their home country rather than leave for two years to get their degree in America. It is clear that the Chinese feel no need to come to America anymore to find better opportunities. While these opportunities are now at their fingertips, it is important to note that American businesses play a partial role, and MBA programs in China should continue to address this.

• 32. Mark Fairman  |  March 12th, 2008 at 7:26 pm

  I am glad that our program offers a course that not only trains us about China’s emerging market, but also takes us there to witness it firsthand. As far as the language goes, I enjoy learning about different languages, and think that this course could incorporate some basic structure and phrases for Mandarin. I could always use how to say “one more beer” in another language. I do think this course is a great introduction into the Chinese (and Indian) cultures, and can be used as a great starting point if we decided this could be an area we could see ourselves becoming more involved in.

  I loved the part in the CNN article about the monks earning their MBAs. “the monks’ curriculum included lectures on temple management, philosophy and religious product marketing,” I am envious that these monks were able to receive education in their specific field–as an architecture undergrad, I wish I was introduced into more specific functions of managing and architectural practice.

• 33. Naomi Guy  |  March 13th, 2008 at 3:23 pm

  One thing that drew me to this program was certainly the trip. I know quite a few people that have needed to travel to China for business and who have told me it is essential to have some understanding before embarking on such a journey. During interviews it is one of the first things they ask about on my resume and I have received nothing but positive comments.

  As for the language. I’m awful at languages, so would never come if it was required. Also, Mandarin is extremely challenging and would require a huge commitment. I might be interested in a one week crash course before we depart, but nothing more. I’ll take the advice about hiring a translator and put it to good use.

  I would, however, be interested in a more focused curriculum. Like some above me, and in the CNN article, they mentioned the Monk’s getting their MBA’s. If I could have some flexibility and at least choose my electives from a wider pool I think the degree would be more valued. Many interviewers have asked my concentration, ie finance, marketing etc, and I have nothing to say. Unlike the trip this always results in a negative comment.

• 34. Simone Michel  |  March 15th, 2008 at 7:25 am

  The trip was one of the things that drew me to this program as well. I am especially excited that I can apply my China experience at my current job.

  Learning Mandarin would probably be a great investment according to the CNN article. I speak 4 languages but I think that I would have my problems with Mandarin. I would probably want to move there for a year or two just so I am exposed to the language 24/7 and can practice it on a daily basis.

  I think another advantage would be if colleges would offer undergrad China or India classes. You could then cover the basics, maybe some history and then when you decide to pursue your MBA, go into more depth.

• 35. Andrew Steen  |  March 16th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

  “If you have no MBA degree, you can’t find a job.” I like the sound of that quote from the Business Week article. And furthermore, an MBA with an international emphasis like ours is very advantageous to have.
  On another note, why is the enrollment process in China so inefficient? (ie: Prospective students apply to only one school at a time!) I guess that guarantees all accepted applicants are good at game theory?
  The following quote from the Business Week article was confusing: “And an abundance of low-quality MBA programs churning out graduates with few discernible job skills has left many employers wary.” Few discernible job skills? What is that a result of? Corruption? Or inappropriateness of curriculum?
  If it has to do with curriculum, I wonder if it’s in the Harvard case writer’s best interest to begin writing some more China appropriate cases, even if only in response to student criticism: “those [cases] prepared by Harvard Business School, which students say are of little use to people planning to pursue careers in China.” If the Chinese programs have really great material, will that decrease the value of the original Harvard?

• 36. Nicholas Dominguez  |  March 17th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

  I was struck by the Chinese students assumptions that Western companies were automatically better managed. I can definitely understand the need for relevant examples of business dilemmas and cases to learn from but I question the reliance on western companies. Chinese. Overall, I found these articles to be a quick glimpse into the educational system of China. I have to say that a 19% college attendance rate is a scary statistic no matter what profession you are in. 18% of every high school graduate in China is a very large number of people. The real prohibitive element that keeps the US executives from still having a oversees job available to them is the language barrier. If English becomes part of the curriculum our degree will be almost worthless to a company looking to place an expatriate in China. However, this situation can work both ways. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mandarin becomes an elective or even required course in MBA programs during the coming years.

• 37. Glenn Hughes  |  March 17th, 2008 at 8:24 pm

  While going to school abroad sounds like a fantastic opportunity for developing your skills as an international business leader, right now may not be the time. The second article really highlights the current disappointment with MBA programs currently offered. A quarter of the students don’t feel that they have adequate leadership skills and that the programs did not focus enough on doing business in China. Recruiters even show disappointment with the problem solving skills of the students that they are recruiting.

  This said, should the issue be ignored? Absolutely not. It is obvious that China is trying to mass produce MBAs to meet their growing need for managers, and may even be attempting to produce MBA graduates for the American and Western markets. As education becomes ever more important, you need to have higher and higher degrees to compete for the good jobs and an increased flow of MBA’s into the workplace could affect the demand for undergraduate hires. Watch out MBAs, the job market is getting more and more competitive.

• 38. Woon Lam "Justine" Wong  |  March 17th, 2008 at 11:48 pm

  My perspective would be quite different from the rest of us, as I am the Chinese student who came to America and get my MBA. Education is only a small part about study abroad, the main thing I learn is to be independent, and to experience a typical “American” life. This experience helps me to understand much more about American culture, which is something that you can never learn in books or lectures.
  I am pretty sure if the MBA students in China have the money and opportunity to study abroad, they would do so. I doubt if they really think staying to China to secure their job is more worthwhile than going oversea. For many Chinese, going oversea is their life dream, and people tried various ways just to come to America.
  Even if I am not planning to stay in the US, with my MBA degree here, I believe I will be much better off than students who get their MBA in China. In no ways do I think the current MBA program in China is comparable to those offered here, given that they are just copying. However, in the coming ten years, when China started to develop its own unique education standard, and when it becomes a much stronger power in the world, the value of its MBA will raise to a similar level here.

• 39. Adam WIndham  |  March 18th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

  I agree with the previous statements and feel that adding a language requirement would not be worth the added cost. While no one can deny that being able to speak another language is invaluable, to effectively learn a language you need to be immersed in it. Six months or even a year of intense study will most likely not get you to the level you would need to be at to carry on important business conversations without the use of an interpreter. If the language component were coupled with a six-month study abroad, then yes I can see the added value.

  However, as Dr. Carr mentioned that would significantly increase the cost and time to earn your MBA. Personally, one of the biggest appeals of Cal Poly’s MBA program was that fact that you could complete your studies in under a year. If someone is truly passionate about learning another language they will find away to do so, on their own time. Making it a requirement would probably turn away more people then it would attract.

• 40. william jencks  |  March 19th, 2008 at 3:13 am

  I for one am so happy that our program has this component about China. It really is everywhere now – in the papers, in magazines, everywhere. Even if this course just provides us a knowledge base with which we can conduct some meaningful water cooler conversations it will have been worth its while. Even in architecture, China is booming. High profile American and European firms are being snatched up left and right to design towers for the booming Asian cities. One guy at my last firm in San Diego had spent some time in China and was amazed by the development there, and the comparative freedom from building code restrictions warranting more creativity. I can’t wait to come back and talk about this with him over a beer.

  As for the language, I would love to learn it, but as I said earlier I just don’t think it is worth it unless you really plan on doing a lot of business within China’s borders. For me an interpreter will do just fine on the chance occasion that I do work with someone who does not speak English.

• 41. Sarah Ybarra  |  March 19th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

  I would not have attended Cal Poly if mandarin was required. Learning the language would have extended my length of time here and would have made my education a lot more expensive. I don’t have the time or the money and I don’t anticipate having to use mandarin in my future. It will be more valuable to me, if I ever do need to communicate with mandarin speakers, to hire a good translator. For people who plan to do extensive work with China, learning mandarin would be very valuable. I do think that Cal Poly is offering us a wonderful opportunity to become educated about the business operations of China and India. This trip is one factor that drew me to the program and I know that the experience will be invaluable to me whether or not I ever do business with people in China or India.

• 42. Steve Munio  |  March 19th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

  I can definitely see the value in the China business tour, and learning all we can about taking advantage of opportunity in China. However, I would draw the line at being required to learn Mandarin. Everyone needs to control all the excitement about China, and realize that no one can predict the future. This is especially so considering all the escalating problems China has yet to face such as an inevitable rise in worker expectations and standard of living, an imminent environmental issue, and possibilities of major governmental changes in the near decades to come. I would hate to have a program that forces me to “put all my eggs in one basket” causing me to depend on China as being the entire future of all business. Mandarin would be a great tool to add to my skill set, but it is one I’d rather undertake for myself separately if I chose to do so.

• 43. Richard Ciesco  |  March 20th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

  I think for many of us by now it is obvious how important it is for us to understand business in China and India. Chances of you having to do business in one of these nations for many of us going through this program are 100%. There is no way to avoid it. The best way to understand something is to drive in and get hands on experience, as we all know from the learn by doing. What better way to learn by doing than to have the opportunity to go to those two countries and talk with people and businesses? I hope that through this experience I can do just that. Not only will be a great growth tool as an individual to see and learn the cultures it will be a great tool to use when at a company.

• 44. Eric Kvilhaug  |  March 20th, 2008 at 10:24 pm

  The thought of having to learn Mandarin to take a 4 unit business trip is scary. Not to discredit the trip, even though it’s only four units, it’s a requirement to graduate. But the amount of work that it would take to even carry on a single sentence would be incredible. I would not be going on the trip, as Dr. Carr said it best, the opportunity cost would have been too high.

  In response to California not being the place to be in years to come, I believe this reality will be realized much sooner than expected. The next generation should not have to move many states away to find peace again, but generations after that might needed to start looking at other countries. As much as I love California it is hard to stay, so many reasons and rationales point to other states being better for myself. In thirty years I might just have to move when I can’t take Kalifornia anymore.

• 45. Jesse Dundon  |  March 20th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

  “China is borrowing what it can and creating what it needs.” (from the business week article “China’s B-School Boom”). China has long been practicing this theory of pragmatism. that is, doing whatever it takes to succeed. Sometimes, this is at the stake of human rights, sometimes, it is at the stake of the environment, and some times, it is at the stake of western intellectual property. It can be argued that China has succeeded so quickly in many fronts because it hasn’t reinvented the wheel, as the article says in terms of education, but because it craftily takes bits and pieces from other success stories and molds them together like a kit car.

  Yet again, and fittingly for my last response of the quarter, I encourage you to read “China Modernizes”, by Randall Peerenboom. It talks about, in detail, almost every single issue from every single article and video on the list. The book is hard to start, hard to get through, but rewarding to finish. Check out my blog at chindia.spaces.live.com for an in-depth review. My thanks to Dr. Carr for motivating me to read this book.

• 46. Gary Chou  |  March 20th, 2008 at 11:37 pm

  I am not sure if Cal Poly is the “leading business” of America, but I am sure the quality of our China education is in the top 5 nationwide. What I have learned from these assignments and meetings are just phenomenal.

• 47. David Dougherty  |  March 21st, 2008 at 9:31 am

  I agree with Mr. Munio on this one. I am still very excited about the trip and see the great value in going, but do not think that a requirement to learn Mandarin should become in part of this MBA program. As not all students will deal with china, (although most will) there are better ways these students can spend their time. I think it’s very possible to become a good businessman and accomplish goals internally, without riding the china wave of growth. I do agree though that those who catch this China wave of growth are going to go from good businessmen to great businessmen,

• 48. Witold Sadowski  |  March 21st, 2008 at 10:43 am

  As this article is from August 14, 2006, I’m sure it’s ever more important today to have China be a part of the MBA curriculum. Prior to joining the program, I was aware that China was a big player, but I didn’t know to what extent… I’m very happy to get this exposure. As global competition gets ever tighter, it is good to have this international perspective mindset…

  I agree with Jeff and others above… I would be all for having a basic mandarin elective class as part the program here… especially for those who would plan to work for a global firm.

• 49. Morgan O'Hara  |  December 21st, 2008 at 10:33 am

  Aside from its great value, one of the big drawing points of this program was, to me, the Chindia trip. Once I found out Cal Poly was offering Mandarin, I signed up. Since there’s been a lot of debate over the merit of learning Chinese, allow me to add my two cents. In our first class, the Chinese teacher handed out a survey asking us why we wanted to learn Chinese. I answered ‘mental exercise.’ I know, I’m a nerd. If you really like challenges, pick it up. It can be both frustrating and rewarding – it’s like playing a giant game of pinball in your head. And realize it’s a long process. Now, one of my (few) life goals is to achieve fluency in Chinese. More so than any professional advantage, I know that if one day I’m chattering away full speed in Mandarin, I’m going to be able to step out of my body for a moment, look down at myself, and realize how cool that is. Did I say I was a nerd?

  The article, a bit outdated, says the global economy was about to see “a war for talent both in China and in domestic markets” as companies scramble to find managers. I wonder if that’s still the case. Anyone else worried about where the global economy is headed? And those with more life experience who can compare this recession to some other scares, how does it seem to stack up? I don’t want to be a fearmonger at all, far from it, but it seems like we should be giving the state of the economy some consideration. I also realize there’s little we can do about it – and recession or no recession, our Chindia trip’s value is not diminished. Rather, maybe it increases?

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