75 Comments Add your own

• 1. Frank Wallace  |  December 13th, 2007 at 8:20 pm

  Prior to the start of this class, I had no idea that China was going to be such a major part of my life in the future. I am thankful that we will be ahead of the game by going on this trip, especially when business leaders say “they expect China to be Britain’s single most important export market by 2009, worth 10% of global revenues.” I am sure that this statement also applies to the United States. As far as obtaining an MBA in China, I think the pros don’t quite outweigh the cons enough to make me want to get an MBA there. The main reason is that western schools have been doing this for longer and better, and like the article said “in most cases the MBA programs attended by China’s top students are very much the product of Western educational institutions.” This just goes to show that our way of teaching is best since the Chinese have benchmarked us, but the Chinese are closing in on teaching the same way. I still think that at this point it is best to stay in the United States to get an MBA, but it is extremely helpful and almost necessary that the MBA program has some focus on working in China.

• 2. Catriona Banks-Orosco  |  December 16th, 2007 at 12:34 pm

  I am surprised that the study of China’s markets is that unusual. Kudos to Cal Poly for taking the lead and making this tour a required part of the MBA intensive. I would imagine we will only scratch the surface of how business operates in China during our short visit. The exposure will be valuable in driving home the concepts we are reading about. I can understand the value in staying for an extended time to gain necessary skills and practice what has been learned. I hope I can integrate this knowledge in the future. I recently to spoke with a retailer in France that does not want me to move production to China because it adds too many extra costs and hurdles, making the buyer’s surplus zero. I know China is still going to be a valuable part of this experience.

• 3. Robyn Bowie  |  December 16th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

  Looks like our program should think about adding Mandarin to the curiculum in the future. China is certainly turning into the place to be to get your MBA. This makes me glad that our program does a trip to China, something that will be an important part of our lives as business people in the future. We need this trip to stay ahead of the curve. Of course if we were Chinese, we would probably choose to spend our two years getting an MBA in China even if we had the chance to go abroad. The article “China’s B School Boom” talks about how Chinese students stay ahead of the curve by staying in China. The skills of MBA graduates are already in great demand and staying in China to complete their degree helps them stay in touch with the people who can hook them up with the right job. This makes a lot of sense. Once again the reverse of the brain drain is happening in China. Instead of leaving China for education and not returning, students are staying for education as well as jobs. This is definitely a trend that will help China’s economy stay white hot. Good for them for educating their next top managers by racing through a B-school evolution that “it took US B-schools more than half a century to accomplish.”

• 4. Chris Carr  |  December 16th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

  Good comments.

  Remember that adding a language requirement to the (any) program, to do it right and well, will mean longer time to degree completion, stress, and $$$ expense.

  One of the questions I would suggest that students consider asking as part of the trip and try to find the answer to over there is, “If I don’t have the time or money to learn Mandarin, what is a realistic Plan B that will more than get me by if/when I am over there in the future?” I have an answer to that which works for myself, but you will need to find your own road in this regard and what works for you.

  Further, note that while adding Mandarin to the curriculum will attract some, others might be turned away from the program because a language was being required (at all) or the one that was being offered was not French or Spanish or other (one year one fellow demanded that it be German; the next year it was Farsi).

  We are such a small under market priced program that it’s not feasible at this time to offer a number of MBA language options (unless folks are willing to pay a LOT more for tuition, or the state kicks in more money).

  Thus, be careful what you wish for ….

  When we look at things with our business hats on, the picture and analysis can look very different than if/when we look at things with our business trained hats on. Keep this in mind in your future careers as you manage and lead your own employees!

• 5. Angie Q. Dip  |  December 17th, 2007 at 1:50 am

  I agree with Frank that I would rather stay here in America to get my MBA, since the Chinese are adopting the US model of business schools. I am also thankful that Cal Poly made the China trip a requirement, as I am sure that would look extremely good on my resume. Since there still seems to be a lack of good quality in some of the business schools in China, I think it is best for people to stay in the US now to attend business schools, but definitely consider the business schools in China once the quality reaches or surpasses the level of quality in the US.

  I agree with Robyn that Mandarin should definitely be added to our curriculum, as that would be very beneficial for us. Not only would it look good on the resume, which would increase our chances of getting hired, but it would also be of assistance for us when we bargain at the Chinese markets when we go to China! Jokes aside, in addition, it would also help for those who are interested in pursuing an international business career in the future. Although this would mean more money and more stress, plus a longer time to complete and get our degree, I definitely think it is necessary and worth the cost. Some students may be turned away from the program because of the language requirement, but if they are truly trying to get a business degree, they should understand the importance of learning Mandarin for the future. However, I do understand not everyone intends on pursuing an international business career, so one other option may be to offer a Mandarin class as one of the alternatives for the electives.

  If people do not have the time or money to learn Mandarin, a realistic Plan B that may help to get them by when they are in China in the future may be to get one of those self-learning CDs, or to hire a trusted interpreter in China.

• 6. Chris Carr  |  December 17th, 2007 at 8:29 am

  This is some good stuff. Let’s probe deeper,and do some down and dirty, informal market research.

  For the average person and MBA student in California who is in their mid-twenties, to become even reasonably proficient in Mandarin, while studying here, would require at least six (6) months of full-time studying (meaning you study Mandarin and only Mandarin, and are not taking other business courses because you are running so fast and so hard to learn how to speak the language in order to do it well and right). This also assume you are pretty darn good with languages. To be become pretty good at reading and speaking Mandarin, figure a year, maybe two.

  If that meant it took you 1.5 years to 2.5 years to complete the Cal Poly MBA degree, rather than the just under one year (assuming you are an accelerated track student, how many would still apply and come to the program? And how many would not because that opportunity cost is too high?

  One reason I ask because in business, customers saying they will come, and customers putting money down and stepping up is a whole different issue. E,g., anybody remember how Apple miscalculated on its I-phone? In their focus groups, people said, “$600, no problem!” Then the reality hit and not enough people were buying it, and hence, Apple put its tail between its legs and dropped the price by $200.

  Another item nobody has yet asked or gone out and done their homework on … if the opportunity cost of learning Mandarin is too high, and let’ say you go there 4 to 6 times a year on business, how much does a good interpreter cost you? See what you can find out and report back.

  Additional question: Is the best way to approach this to use “the market”? I.e., for those that wish to pursue language study, direct them to a place like the Monterey Language Institute, whose core competency is language instruction or direct them to a language school in Beijing, to pursue on their own, at their own cost and on their own time? That way, it’s market driven — for those that want it, they can get it. Is econ theory in action better, in this case, than a program or government mandate? What is best for the consumer? What is best for the firm offering the product? What is best for the taxpayers who fund universities? Discuss.

• 7. Tai Massion  |  January 1st, 2008 at 5:07 pm

  I am just fine with not learning Mandarin. If it was a requirement I would have not applied (sorry- not so great with languages). I looked into the Monterey Language Institute (b/c I am not so great with languages), they have an MBA and many languages to choose from, so why would Cal Poly need to compete with that? I like that business schools are offered in China, but I would have not attended. I think it would be valuable for someone who knew, for sure, they would be making China a large part of their career. For us, undecided or unknowing, our program is perfect. I appreciate the fact that we are learning about China and India and will be going abroad for this short period. I think we will all get a lot out of the experience.

• 8. Brandi Eng-Rohrbach  |  January 25th, 2008 at 12:08 am

  Honestly, I don’t feel that you can effectively learn a language without being impressed in the language and being forced to learn it out of necessity. I think any program that attempted to teach it in a year would be ineffective. I think a market system is usually the most efficient way of solving problems. Thus if there is a demand in the market for programs that get their value added by offering Mandarin in conjunction with an MBA. Then it would be wise for such programs to exist. If you build it then they will come (assuming demand exists),

  Actually, I thought the poll that was on the CNN article was very interesting. Most people care about the prestige of the program more than anything else. I found it surprising that this was valued more than value for money. I guess a name matters more to most people than the content. This made me wonder if this is driven by market demand for only certain well-known schools with established name brands. I hope that employers care more about content than name. Time will tell.

• 9. Deanna Haskell  |  January 29th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

  These articles clearly show the importance of studying China in our MBA program. I was actually surprised to learn that the Chinese are rapidly expanding their MBA programs and that they draw students from other countries. Particularly because they follow a western model. I would personaly not want to attend a Chinese MBA program because they are fairly new and I would rather attend a program that is more established, but is keeping up with new developments. I also think that it is important to understand how different countries do business and therefore think that it is beneficial for MBA programs to have exchange programs.

• 10. Ryan Moore  |  February 4th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

  I would echo the sentiments of Dr. Carr on the “Learn to Speak Mandarin” idea. There is no way a course or two mixed into the curriculum would be beneficial. I took Spanish for two years in high school and can recollect about half a dozen words as a result of those studies. I do however know how to speak Spanish fairly well due to the fact that I have worked with Hispanics for several years. You must study for years and / or submerse yourself in the culture and live and or work in that country for an extended period of time to have any chance to absorb enough of the language to be useful in business. The commitment to understand the Mandarin language (or to read and write it) would require as much or more of a commitment that that of obtaining an MBA in the first place.

• 11. Nick Miura  |  February 6th, 2008 at 9:21 am

  What caught my eye in these articles was not so much the rise of the MBA programs in China, but the decline of stateside MBAs. I believe it is fairly obvious that China as well as India are growing at rapid rates, and in such, will need a new generation of business leaders and educated management to make proper decisions. The material one learns in an MBA program is invaluable towards those ends. Furthermore, I agree that China and India should be studied in any MBA curriculum simply because the two countries will play a huge roll in our business careers and everyday life. I applaud CalPoly’s efforts to realize this and stay ahead of the curve and I am looking forward to seeing China and India first hand.

  That being said, why has the demand to obtain American MBA degrees declined? Thinking in economic terms, that means that an MBA in America is seeing a relative value decline on the world stage. I’m sure part of the reason for this is many of the students who attended these schools were foreigners who now have a cheaper Chinese alternative, with a potentially higher payoff. Now all these Chinese and Indian students don’t have to leave home and almost have a guaranteed job after school putting them automatically in the countries’ elite. But are there other reasons? Has growth stalled enough in the US that qualified business leaders are no longer in such high demand? I think a very relevant question here is what do students expect their American or more specifically their CalPoly MBA to get them in the future?

  So, would I want to go to school in China? No. Do I think Cal Poly Business School should offer Mandarin classes? No. And my reasoning is I don’t particularly want to do business in China. I want to work in the United States, be close to family, live in an environment which I’m comfortable in. If I had been interested in oversea business, I probably would have gone to another school, possibly even overseas. My motivation for coming to business school is to learn the basics of business and management so I can take this knowledge to engineering project management. Cal Poly is not stopping anybody from learning Mandarin, and if people really believe it is that important and it is necessary to get ahead in the business world, I have to ask, what’s stopping you?

• 12. Chris Carr  |  February 6th, 2008 at 11:47 am

  Good and thoughtful comment, Nick.

  You raise an interesting issue that I would like to explore further and for people to think about:

  1. Many of you have started to see through this course how the world is changing. Now, in 2008, you (and me) may still be able to reside, 100 percent of the time in California and survive, do well, have a high quality of life, etc. But what do you predict for your children and their children and their children — will they have the luxury of staying in California, close to family, living full time in an environment in which they are comfortable?

  2. If the answer is no, when do you think is the best time to start training a society for when that day comes that they may have to be more mobile — now, the next generation, the generation after that, yesterday?

  Discuss. I appreciate that these questions can be unfathomable (and unpopular) in places like SLO and Cali (paradise), because we think paradise will go on forever. But what if it does not?

  As a personal example of where I (Carr, the gadfly) am coming from is this — I have no idea, no idea at all, how I will afford to send my kids to a decent US college in 15 years given how the cost is rising in relation to income, and I am one of the lucky ones and have two incomes in family (but also no trust fund or parents/family with money that will come to my rescue).

  I have thus started to think, a lot, about exposing them to the good, and very cheap, universities in other countries such as part of Europe, Mexico (does have a few), South America, and, of course China. Today, in 2008, they see daddy get on a plane to go to this far away and undeveloped place like China. They have never been there, and they still see China as a place as far away as the moon. However, I get on the plane with a smile on my face so they don’t see doing regular work and trips abroad as this big deal or production or something that is out of the ordinary.

  One of my hopes, is, if/when the day comes when I have to say, “I can’t afford to send you to a decent school in the US”, they may at least be open to a school abroad and don’t see the world as big of a place as others. This is a long winded way of saying that “I” can get away with California comfort, but they may not be able to, and I need to get them geared up for that day so they can survive, stand on their own, and not buy into the current American victim mentality. And then my hope is that for their kids, it will be even less of a big deal.

  This is a new issue for us Americans. Tribes like the Brits, Chinese, Indians, Japanese, Jews, Muslims, etc., have been traveling the globe for years and in my experience, are much more comfortable with change and lack of comfort. For a good book on this topic, see, e.g., Joel Kotkin, Tribes: How Race, Religion, and Identity Determine Success in the New Global Economy, 1994 (Random House, Inc.)

• 13. David Zarcone  |  February 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

  I have to agree with Frank and admit I was ignorant to the fact that China was going to be such an important aspect of my future as a businessman. I had no idea about any of this until the grad program. Although I am very grateful that masters students will be ahead of the curve, I still wish these topics were introduced in my undergrad studies.

  I find it amazing that businesses will be hiring Chinese MBA graduates to make up for the shortfalls in international business, mostly the lack of language skills. Although it would be nice to have a required language class familiarizing us with basic language skills, this would be a costly addition to our program. I am going to utilize the time we have in China and India to try to pick up as much usefull communication skills (both verbal and non-verbal) that I can so I will be better prepared in the future.

• 14. Chris White  |  February 17th, 2008 at 10:39 pm

  I too was a bit naïve about the powerful economic rise of China and India and their affects on the global economy before starting this course. I was also somewhat against globalization, based on job losses, etc. But now I have a much better understanding of international business and I realize that there are many positive aspects. I think we are fortunate to have this opportunity to not only travel to China and India, but to study these countries from multiple aspects.
  In response to China’s business school reform, I just finished reading Robyn Meredith’s The Elephant and the Dragon and one of the things that I found interesting was that part of the requirement for opening a factory in China was to teach the Chinese management Western methods of running a business. The Chinese government is really serious about developing their economy and they are getting free lessons from American companies.

• 15. Dena Malloy  |  February 21st, 2008 at 7:11 pm

  I find it strange that Chinese business schools would adopt a western way of teaching their MBA’s. From what we have learned so far, doing business in China or India is vastly different from doing business in the US. Teaching US style efficiency (and if what you mean by US style is actually the ideas we took from the Japanese) would be very beneficial to Chinese MBA’s but I doubt that some of our courses like OB, Law, or even Accounting and Finance would be very useful.

  Schools like Cal Poly, in my opinion, really level the playing field for students with abilities that want to succeed. Dr. Carr, you should definitely send your kids to Cal Poly! Unfortunately, I will probably be unable to send my kids to a private school like I attended because the cost will be prohibitive. Quality schools like Cal Poly, however, help defer the cost of living in an expensive state like CA!

• 16. Chris Carr  |  February 22nd, 2008 at 11:02 am

  China’s adoption of western ways and business methods such as the teaching MBA’s is not unusual and in many ways makes sense.

  It is their commonly executed “leap frog strategy” — rather then kill oneself starting from scratch, instead adopt something close, cherry pick what you like, and in time jettison the rest and develop what you need, thereby leaving something in place that fits what you need.

  Same thing happened with Lenovo’s purchase of IBM. Rather than build your own brand, if you have the money just go buy one that is already respected (in this case buy part of the IBM product line) and overnight you are legit.

  These are some smart, smart folks.

• 17. Chris Kirk  |  February 23rd, 2008 at 4:25 pm

  The most important line in the article is the very first one - MBAs can’t afford to ignore China. The talent and growth of the graduate students far outweighs any other country. The fact that so many companies are now looking to China to recruit their MBA talent proves that the trend is real and here to stay. The first article made a great point that students should demand that a module of their graduate work be dedicated to China and its effect on the economy. The fact remains that either directly or indirectly, every business is in some way affected by the Chinese rise to power. Although I see the value in traveling to China to get an MBA, I don’t think it would be something that I would ever pursue. I appreciate the exposure that the graduate program at Cal Poly is giving me and believe that it provides a good stepping stone for future international business experience should I choose to take my career in that direction.

• 18. Pierre Michael  |  February 24th, 2008 at 12:45 am

  I found it really interesting that monks are completing their MBAs in China. That just seems really weird and oxymoronic to me. Aren’t they supposed to live tranquil lives away from the churning market societies?

  Anyways, I agree, to some extent with Nick Miura. I came here to learn the fundamentals of business and engineering management. This shouldn’t however, prevent one from being open to the possibilities of international business. We’ve seen how the internet has made the world a smaller place. In 20 years, all business could be international business. So, although China and Mandarin are what’s on the plate today, it could be India, Malaysia, or somewhere in Africa tomorrow. The point is, we need to be receptive to business opportunities globally, at all times. I am very grateful that we will have the opportunity to visit China and India and witness first hand how business is done.

  The increase in Chinese middle managers and decrease in American ones is somewhat worrisome. Competition is increasing and that’s what you’ll have to deal with. Find out what you are best at and leverage that against your competitors. If you end up without a job in the US, consider moving to an Asian country touting your English prowess.

• 19. Jesse Bilsten  |  February 28th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

  I’d love to think of myself as unique when I enter the market place with an MBA however I firmly believe after taking only 2 quarters of classes that an MBA is essential to anyone who’s involved in the business world. The education I’m receiving is useful at all levels of the corporate world and even more so as an entrepreneur.

  I was discussing learning Mandarin with my parents recently and they mentioned that even though it would be useful if I did business in China the most important languages will be the ones I use everyday and/or exist in the area I do business in predominately which in California will always be Spanish/Mexican. I still have a strong desire to learn Mandarin as languages fascinate me and being able to communicate with the Chinese will be useful regardless of where I do business since it’s looking like any manufacturing will be coming from there.

• 20. Rob Belloni  |  March 1st, 2008 at 1:39 am

  In regards to the language question: I would not have attended the Cal Poly program if a language requirement lengthened the program to 1.5 or 2 years. Not only do I believe it would be impossible to learn a new language in 6 months, the costs (cash, opportunity, life) would have been too high for me to bear.

  I got a small taste of China in my former employment, where I trained a co-worker in Shenzen who was assigned as an onsite engineer at the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC). To say that I had no clue about Chinese culture or how to work effectively with this guy is an understatement. I hope to be much more prepared come July 5.

  In August I’ll be starting at a large corporation in their services division. 400 of their internal support engineers are located in India and I will be, without question, working with them and the issues surrounding them. I hope that our time in India will give me a leg up in this regard. Perhaps I will even meet some of them along the way during our trip. The world is flat isn’t it?

  As far as where I will send my kids to college, I sure hope Cal Poly is still around when the time comes. I believe in the learn by doing approach, and believe the school embodies the fact that a great education can be delivered in an economical package.

• 21. Simeon Trieu  |  March 1st, 2008 at 9:14 pm

  Whoa whoa, while I agree that China is up and coming, let’s not call it doomsday for American MBAs yet. It is true that learning Mandarin and Chinese business will be a new skill to acquire, but is it really that much of a difference from what businesspeople are used to? It is not up to the school to teach Mandarin. That is a personal choice that the student must make. Mandarin is not so ubiquitous in American business that it is absolutely necessary that everyone must take it. You must follow what is necessary for your path of learning. Only you can define those needs. Being in business means keeping up with the trends and following your gut that has gotten execs to adapt to the market. This is just a variation of those adaptations.

  But in terms of multinational corporations, we need execs today that can straddle the lines and do business both with the US and China. Americans need to wake up to educational goals in order to meet the demand that the world is now putting on them. If we had the spirit of the Chinese, that study is one of the most important goals in life, then maybe we would have an education system that developed our talents and abilities early in life, instead of later.

  Let’s take a step back, though, and examine the Chinese system of MBA study. They are copying the US verbatim. Unfortunately, a copy is a copy. It is not the real thing. While the subject material may be the same, there are some learning techniques that are lost in translation. The recruiters have this to say about the new graduates: “Even at top programs there’s a palpable sense of disappointment among recruiters, who say many graduates lack adequate English skills, problem-solving abilities, and a willingness to start at the bottom.” China’s system is still not good enough, and it may very well take them that extra time they tried to speed past (there are no shortcuts in life).

  But one thing is clear, an MBA is not only a good degree to get now, it is necessary to get a job. The article states that “with the percentage of high school students entering college on the upswing, from 11% in 1998 to 19% today, many deans believe China will soon see a surge in enrollments that will transform the MBA from an academic curiosity into a must-have degree. ‘When more people have a telephone, more people buy a telephone. The value increases,’ notes Guanghua’s Zhang. ‘If you have no MBA degree, you can’t find a job.’”

  I don’t think anybody expected China to just sit idly by while opportunity for MBA graduates existed. If there is a need, a market will arise to meet it. As stated in the article, “Students say Western management techniques will help Chinese companies compete against better-managed rivals. ‘Ten years ago the gap between Chinese companies and multinationals was huge,’ says Alan Wang, a CEIBS EMBA student in Shanghai and an exec at one of China’s biggest ice-cream makers. ‘Now everyone in China is aware of how important an MBA education is, and we’re quickly filling that space.’” How long will it take to replace all of the expats in China with local talent? It’s already being done. Start learning and adapt. Not only will the local talent work for less, but they will also have the same education as us. For now, the gap remains, but it is closing fast.

• 22. Darold Parsons  |  March 4th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

  I agree with the above statements. I would not have come to Cal Poly had it required me to take Mandarin in order for me to get my MBA. I do think it would be a great course to add as an elective for those interested in overseas business.
  I also would not have gone to China to get my MBA. The idea is a good one, but I plan on using my MBA to start my own business in California, hopefully. China is an up and coming country and will probably overtake the US in economy size someday. It will therefore be useful to know all that you can about doing business in and with China, but I do not foresee China in the cards for me. Or course anything can change.
  I also know that there will always be jobs here in California, what those jobs will be is impossible to tell. The future could change California to the call center for Asia. Will my kids be able to stay in California to live near me? I hope so. California has one of the highest costs of living in the world, and if it continues to climb as it has, then I doubt my Children will be able to do so, unless I strike it rich using my MBA skills.
  That being said, it is never too early to start preparing people, or allowing them to prepare themselves, for the future.

• 23. Matt Fencl  |  March 4th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

  I think that the idea of incorporating Chinese into the MBA curriculum is excellent, but for all practical purposes, impossible. Both Mandarin and Cantonese are not romantic languages, unlike English and Spanish. The similarities between English and Spanish make the transition from one to the other relatively easy. Even so, many students take several Spanish classes throughout their academic career (I took 6) and still can’t carry on a conversation with someone proficient in the language.

  Not only are Mandarin and Cantonese harder to learn, but they are also largely ignored by the current school system. In both high school and junior high, Chinese languages were not even an option (although German, Italian, and Latin were). If a student is to have a better chance learning another language, the best time to teach them is at these ages or younger. Without some exposure early on in their academic career, how can you expect to instruct students to become proficient at the graduate level?

• 24. Amy Linker  |  March 7th, 2008 at 9:07 pm

  I would not be surprised if China soon has an MBA program comparable to the top programs in the United States. With such a demand in China it is only a matter of time. With so many people obtaining an MBA in the PRC a need to decipher between excellent and mediocre programs will be a must. This will drive universities to upgrade their programs in order to obtain a highly recognizable status. In addition, MBA’s from China who can speak both English and Chinese will be of greater value to many U. S. firms looking to do business overseas.

  I believe that it will be important to tailor their programs towards their own style of business practices. It seems absurd that they would primarily use case studies from Harvard which document business problems found in our country which has been developed for quite some time. The problems that face companies in China, which as we all know is a developing country, must be a world’s difference from the United States. Of course they cannot come up with quality case studies over night. Harvard has been developing their case studies for decades. Time will improve their MBA programs.

• 25. Jeff Mohr  |  March 9th, 2008 at 8:59 am

  I agree with most here about not having or requiring Mandarin in the program. I feel our society is moving in the wrong direction with respect to education sometimes. More and more I hear people who seem to think the only way they can learn something is by going to school. We have so many great resources with libraries, bookstores, and the internet that most subjects can be learned on your own.

  I was intrigued by the Gobi Desert hiking trip the Chinese Business school went on together before the start of the program. It seems to be similar to our summer intro courses where we spent all day with each other (although a trip might have been more fun). They also move together through the program like us. I think this is a very effective strategy that allows quicker and deeper relationships to be formed. In my mind, I have learned just as much from the program itself as I have from interacting with others. It seems like this will be the direction most programs head in the future, especially since the bigger bond students hold to their classmates and their school, the bigger the donations will be when they make it big…

• 26. Nic Marlin  |  March 9th, 2008 at 11:10 am

  For so many years I have heard about and seen all of the Chinese students flooding US colleges and excelling rapidly. So, they are beginning to stay in China? My first thought–good, they are hard to compete with. I severely doubt, however, that Chinese higher education will be more valuable than the American higher education in the short run. I know that they are pushing to generate MBAs in China to satisfy the demand, but I have also heard that company’s hiring Chinese educated MBAs are complaining that they do not even know what transfer pricing is.

  In response to the conversation about learning Mandarin, I think this needs to be put into the US educational system starting from elementary school. The United States has warped sense that English is the only language that is necessary to know. In Germany, and many other developed countries, students are required to learn foreign languages from elementary school through college. I have an Italian friend, who grew up in Germany, and spoke five languages fluently before graduating college. When I first met her I was amazed that she spoke five languages. Having never lived in the US, she thought speaking five languages was pretty normal. My point is that the US educational system needs to transform is relation to importance of learning foreign languages if it is going to produce highly successful leaders in today’s global marketplace.

• 27. Shasta Palmer  |  March 9th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

  I agree with Tai, I’m not the best with language. So, if taking foreign language was part of this program I probably would not have attended. I also do not plan on perusing a career where I would need to be bilingual in Mandarin, so the benefit isn’t really there for what it would cost me to learn it. I could see where I may need to learn Spanish someday soon, but I would rather learn that from a place like Monterey language Institute, or a personal tutor.
  However, I am glad that we are going to China and India as part of the program, because I do think it will make me more marketable. Overall, I think the knowledge gained from this trip will help me understand the economy and how things are changing. Even if the trip doesn’t directly pertain to my career path, it will also aid me in making more informed decisions as a manager.

• 28. Kyle Tripp  |  March 9th, 2008 at 11:03 pm

  I agree with Dave that it would be nice to cover at least some of the topics o China in our undergrad. At least that way you might decide to learn Mandarin a little earlier or just look into topic on China more. I think if learning Mandarin was a requirement I might have applied somewhere else. I feel that China is an important place regarding business, but that doesn’t mean that every MBA student is going to have a job that is heavily involved in China. It is great that we get to have this experience. It will defiantly be beneficial in improving all of our live, even if it is not in the business world.

• 29. Matt Sprecher  |  March 11th, 2008 at 7:56 pm

  Wow, that CNN article blew my mind about how important it is to know about China as an MBA. The statistic about how much influence China will have over Britain by 2009 is a real shock to me. We have been hearing a lot about how China is catching up with us, but I had no idea that their influence in Britain and Europe was so strong. I think the best quote that described the importance of knowing about China as an MBA was, “Companies who fund MBA study for employees should demand China modules on all courses.”

  In terms of getting an MBA in China, I’m not too sure that the pros could out weigh the cons. Aside from my personal ties to being on the States, I think that the art of an MBA program was perfected in the US, and for that reason I believe it is superior. However, it does seem that China is beginning to catch up with America educationally in terms of MBA programs. Even though I do not feel going to China for an MBA is necessary, learning about it and having the opportunity to go and study it in person is an opportunity that will endless amounts of resourceful dividends.

• 30. Ashley Drum  |  March 12th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

  These two articles reinforce how fortunate we are to be traveling to China. Going off of Dr. Carr’s comment, I feel that Americans don’t seek an overseas education as much as other countries because we are much more isolated as a country and a culture. If you grew up in Europe, you start taking English classes, and most likely another language, from a very early age. Here in America, I was first introduced to another language in high school which is really too late to start if you are hoping to be fluent by the time you leave for college. Dr. Carr is also correct when he says that people will say that they want to learn Mandarin, but getting them to commit to it is a whole different barrier. If China continues to grow at the rate it is today, I will definitely consider signing up my kids to learn Mandarin at an early age to give them a competitive advantage.

• 31. Andria Greenlee  |  March 12th, 2008 at 6:49 pm

  I have mentioned this many times in my blog posts, but one of the main reasons I chose Cal Poly for my MBA was because of the emphasis that the program puts on business in China, and now India! I had not heard of any MBA programs that were doing this but from the sound of the CNN article, many ivy league schools are starting to catch on, as they should! China is impacting everyone,from business to education to the stock market, so it is crucial for all business people to having a good foundation in Asian business practices.

  While reading the Business Week article I made a connection to another article I read that talked about Chinese-American citizens returning to China for jobs that they felt gave them better opportunities than those in America. Just twenty years ago it would be shocking to hear someone say that there is more opportunity in China than in America. And even more shocking to claim that education is better there too. However, as the Business Week article suggests, more Chinese are opting to stay put and pursue MBA’s in their home country rather than leave for two years to get their degree in America. It is clear that the Chinese feel no need to come to America anymore to find better opportunities. While these opportunities are now at their fingertips, it is important to note that American businesses play a partial role, and MBA programs in China should continue to address this.

• 32. Mark Fairman  |  March 12th, 2008 at 7:26 pm

  I am glad that our program offers a course that not only trains us about China’s emerging market, but also takes us there to witness it firsthand. As far as the language goes, I enjoy learning about different languages, and think that this course could incorporate some basic structure and phrases for Mandarin. I could always use how to say “one more beer” in another language. I do think this course is a great introduction into the Chinese (and Indian) cultures, and can be used as a great starting point if we decided this could be an area we could see ourselves becoming more involved in.

  I loved the part in the CNN article about the monks earning their MBAs. “the monks’ curriculum included lectures on temple management, philosophy and religious product marketing,” I am envious that these monks were able to receive education in their specific field–as an architecture undergrad, I wish I was introduced into more specific functions of managing and architectural practice.

• 33. Naomi Guy  |  March 13th, 2008 at 3:23 pm

  One thing that drew me to this program was certainly the trip. I know quite a few people that have needed to travel to China for business and who have told me it is essential to have some understanding before embarking on such a journey. During interviews it is one of the first things they ask about on my resume and I have received nothing but positive comments.

  As for the language. I’m awful at languages, so would never come if it was required. Also, Mandarin is extremely challenging and would require a huge commitment. I might be interested in a one week crash course before we depart, but nothing more. I’ll take the advice about hiring a translator and put it to good use.

  I would, however, be interested in a more focused curriculum. Like some above me, and in the CNN article, they mentioned the Monk’s getting their MBA’s. If I could have some flexibility and at least choose my electives from a wider pool I think the degree would be more valued. Many interviewers have asked my concentration, ie finance, marketing etc, and I have nothing to say. Unlike the trip this always results in a negative comment.

• 34. Simone Michel  |  March 15th, 2008 at 7:25 am

  The trip was one of the things that drew me to this program as well. I am especially excited that I can apply my China experience at my current job.

  Learning Mandarin would probably be a great investment according to the CNN article. I speak 4 languages but I think that I would have my problems with Mandarin. I would probably want to move there for a year or two just so I am exposed to the language 24/7 and can practice it on a daily basis.

  I think another advantage would be if colleges would offer undergrad China or India classes. You could then cover the basics, maybe some history and then when you decide to pursue your MBA, go into more depth.

• 35. Nicholas Dominguez  |  March 17th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

  I was struck by the Chinese students assumptions that Western companies were automatically better managed. I can definitely understand the need for relevant examples of business dilemmas and cases to learn from but I question the reliance on western companies. Chinese. Overall, I found these articles to be a quick glimpse into the educational system of China. I have to say that a 19% college attendance rate is a scary statistic no matter what profession you are in. 18% of every high school graduate in China is a very large number of people. The real prohibitive element that keeps the US executives from still having a oversees job available to them is the language barrier. If English becomes part of the curriculum our degree will be almost worthless to a company looking to place an expatriate in China. However, this situation can work both ways. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mandarin becomes an elective or even required course in MBA programs during the coming years.

• 36. Glenn Hughes  |  March 17th, 2008 at 8:24 pm

  While going to school abroad sounds like a fantastic opportunity for developing your skills as an international business leader, right now may not be the time. The second article really highlights the current disappointment with MBA programs currently offered. A quarter of the students don’t feel that they have adequate leadership skills and that the programs did not focus enough on doing business in China. Recruiters even show disappointment with the problem solving skills of the students that they are recruiting.

  This said, should the issue be ignored? Absolutely not. It is obvious that China is trying to mass produce MBAs to meet their growing need for managers, and may even be attempting to produce MBA graduates for the American and Western markets. As education becomes ever more important, you need to have higher and higher degrees to compete for the good jobs and an increased flow of MBA’s into the workplace could affect the demand for undergraduate hires. Watch out MBAs, the job market is getting more and more competitive.

• 37. Woon Lam "Justine" Wong  |  March 17th, 2008 at 11:48 pm

  My perspective would be quite different from the rest of us, as I am the Chinese student who came to America and get my MBA. Education is only a small part about study abroad, the main thing I learn is to be independent, and to experience a typical “American” life. This experience helps me to understand much more about American culture, which is something that you can never learn in books or lectures.
  I am pretty sure if the MBA students in China have the money and opportunity to study abroad, they would do so. I doubt if they really think staying to China to secure their job is more worthwhile than going oversea. For many Chinese, going oversea is their life dream, and people tried various ways just to come to America.
  Even if I am not planning to stay in the US, with my MBA degree here, I believe I will be much better off than students who get their MBA in China. In no ways do I think the current MBA program in China is comparable to those offered here, given that they are just copying. However, in the coming ten years, when China started to develop its own unique education standard, and when it becomes a much stronger power in the world, the value of its MBA will raise to a similar level here.

• 38. Adam WIndham  |  March 18th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

  I agree with the previous statements and feel that adding a language requirement would not be worth the added cost. While no one can deny that being able to speak another language is invaluable, to effectively learn a language you need to be immersed in it. Six months or even a year of intense study will most likely not get you to the level you would need to be at to carry on important business conversations without the use of an interpreter. If the language component were coupled with a six-month study abroad, then yes I can see the added value.

  However, as Dr. Carr mentioned that would significantly increase the cost and time to earn your MBA. Personally, one of the biggest appeals of Cal Poly’s MBA program was that fact that you could complete your studies in under a year. If someone is truly passionate about learning another language they will find away to do so, on their own time. Making it a requirement would probably turn away more people then it would attract.

• 39. william jencks  |  March 19th, 2008 at 3:13 am

  I for one am so happy that our program has this component about China. It really is everywhere now – in the papers, in magazines, everywhere. Even if this course just provides us a knowledge base with which we can conduct some meaningful water cooler conversations it will have been worth its while. Even in architecture, China is booming. High profile American and European firms are being snatched up left and right to design towers for the booming Asian cities. One guy at my last firm in San Diego had spent some time in China and was amazed by the development there, and the comparative freedom from building code restrictions warranting more creativity. I can’t wait to come back and talk about this with him over a beer.

  As for the language, I would love to learn it, but as I said earlier I just don’t think it is worth it unless you really plan on doing a lot of business within China’s borders. For me an interpreter will do just fine on the chance occasion that I do work with someone who does not speak English.

• 40. Sarah Ybarra  |  March 19th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

  I would not have attended Cal Poly if mandarin was required. Learning the language would have extended my length of time here and would have made my education a lot more expensive. I don’t have the time or the money and I don’t anticipate having to use mandarin in my future. It will be more valuable to me, if I ever do need to communicate with mandarin speakers, to hire a good translator. For people who plan to do extensive work with China, learning mandarin would be very valuable. I do think that Cal Poly is offering us a wonderful opportunity to become educated about the business operations of China and India. This trip is one factor that drew me to the program and I know that the experience will be invaluable to me whether or not I ever do business with people in China or India.

• 41. Steve Munio  |  March 19th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

  I can definitely see the value in the China business tour, and learning all we can about taking advantage of opportunity in China. However, I would draw the line at being required to learn Mandarin. Everyone needs to control all the excitement about China, and realize that no one can predict the future. This is especially so considering all the escalating problems China has yet to face such as an inevitable rise in worker expectations and standard of living, an imminent environmental issue, and possibilities of major governmental changes in the near decades to come. I would hate to have a program that forces me to “put all my eggs in one basket” causing me to depend on China as being the entire future of all business. Mandarin would be a great tool to add to my skill set, but it is one I’d rather undertake for myself separately if I chose to do so.

• 42. Jesse Dundon  |  March 20th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

  “China is borrowing what it can and creating what it needs.” (from the business week article “China’s B-School Boom”). China has long been practicing this theory of pragmatism. that is, doing whatever it takes to succeed. Sometimes, this is at the stake of human rights, sometimes, it is at the stake of the environment, and some times, it is at the stake of western intellectual property. It can be argued that China has succeeded so quickly in many fronts because it hasn’t reinvented the wheel, as the article says in terms of education, but because it craftily takes bits and pieces from other success stories and molds them together like a kit car.

  Yet again, and fittingly for my last response of the quarter, I encourage you to read “China Modernizes”, by Randall Peerenboom. It talks about, in detail, almost every single issue from every single article and video on the list. The book is hard to start, hard to get through, but rewarding to finish. Check out my blog at chindia.spaces.live.com for an in-depth review. My thanks to Dr. Carr for motivating me to read this book.

• 43. Gary Chou  |  March 20th, 2008 at 11:37 pm

  I am not sure if Cal Poly is the “leading business” of America, but I am sure the quality of our China education is in the top 5 nationwide. What I have learned from these assignments and meetings are just phenomenal.

• 44. David Dougherty  |  March 21st, 2008 at 9:31 am

  I agree with Mr. Munio on this one. I am still very excited about the trip and see the great value in going, but do not think that a requirement to learn Mandarin should become in part of this MBA program. As not all students will deal with china, (although most will) there are better ways these students can spend their time. I think it’s very possible to become a good businessman and accomplish goals internally, without riding the china wave of growth. I do agree though that those who catch this China wave of growth are going to go from good businessmen to great businessmen,

• 45. Witold Sadowski  |  March 21st, 2008 at 10:43 am

  As this article is from August 14, 2006, I’m sure it’s ever more important today to have China be a part of the MBA curriculum. Prior to joining the program, I was aware that China was a big player, but I didn’t know to what extent… I’m very happy to get this exposure. As global competition gets ever tighter, it is good to have this international perspective mindset…

  I agree with Jeff and others above… I would be all for having a basic mandarin elective class as part the program here… especially for those who would plan to work for a global firm.

• 46. Dan N  |  January 4th, 2011 at 8:18 am

  Interesting topic and a great discussion amongst the class of ‘08. The dilemma that I see here is that China’s competitiveness depends on wage differentials between our two countries. Lean manufacturing suggests that outsourcing is more wasteful (and less profitable) then pull-based models located closer to the consumer, when viewed holistically. But we continue to keep manufacturing in China because labor costs are unbelievably low. If Chinese managers are pursuing formal educations then they are going to demand higher wages as a result. Taken to an extreme, the cost savings associated with offshoring and outsourcing to China will evaporate and they will educate themselves out of a job.

  It seems that the opportunity for MBA’s is not to become a component of China’s economic machine but to act as a bridge between American companies and Chinese opportunities. I see demand for marketing professionals who can make sense of the various Chinese consumer groups. I also see demand for supply chain professionals who can develop and maintain robust supply chains that effectively manage the risks associated with sourcing in China. I don’t see as much opportunity for operations, sales, or finance professionals. I’m also predicting that tomorrow’s CEO’s will increasingly come from marketing and supply chain functions because they will have more experience working on both sides of the Pacific.

• 47. David Hart  |  January 10th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

  With the growing Chinese economy comes the increased need for managers who understand the ins and outs of business. These articles show the importance of understanding how business in China works for not only Chinese business people, but also Americans.

  It appears that more and more MBA schools in the US are understanding the importance of learning about the impact of the Chinese business world. When I chose to come to Cal Poly, I was excited to hear about this China class. We are learning information that is extremely valuable.

  The articles do a great job of discussing some of the strengths as well as the challenges associated with MBA programs in the US and China. Certainly China is a nation that growing and learning each year. Some of the non top-tier schools in China have big challenges, but I would guess they will improve with time. In the future we will see more and more Chinese become educated with business backgrounds which will help them navigate the fast-growing economy.

• 48. Katie Moeller  |  January 10th, 2011 at 3:59 pm

  I believe our trip to China will be beneficial for our business careers. What I think would be even more beneficial is to have a study abroad program as part of the MBA program. Being immersed in a business school in China and learning first-hand the challenges and opportunities the country faces would be life-changing. Maybe this could potentially happen in the future for the Cal Poly MBA program similar to the exchange program with the Milan school.

  I think the biggest lesson learned from these articles is that China is making a name for itself in educating its people. However, many of the schools have to copy the American education system to be competitive. I guess it’s also just being smart. But, funny how the schools use the Harvard Business case studies but they’re not exactly applicable. I suppose over time the Chinese education system will become more robust and exceed the American education system. The article also addressed the high demands that are placed on the students. It astounds me how some of the students have to take eight classes a quarter. I thought four was hard.

  Our trip to China will be beneficial and applicable to our future careers. I expect to learn a lot and to also have my current way of thinking challenged. In the end, I think this experience will put us at an advantage and set us apart when vying for jobs in this tough marketplace.

• 49. Chris Bruns  |  January 16th, 2011 at 9:45 am

  With the amount of money and business being sent to China, I believe that it is a necessity to teach MBA students about China, its culture, and how business is done there. Our tour of China and lessons on how to do business there is definitely something that will be advantageous to us as MBAs. With how quickly things change and how a company’s focus can quickly shift, even if we don’t plan to be involved on the global market there is a chance we will end up there regardless. A common thread between the majority of the articles linked is that more and more focus is being placed on business in China, and that schools both in the States and China are trying to meet the demand and rise to the occasion.

  One of my favorite aspects of the articles listed was from the CNBC article, Wharton Grads Head to Far East for Jobs. The section was about the shift to more boutique firms and how individuals are looking for a specific job that they want. I believe this means that more and more MBAs are deciding the type of work and travel they are looking for and want in a career, and finding a place that will give it to them. It is important to be well prepared to land the jobs we are looking for, which means being able to follow business wherever we need to go.

• 50. Cassie Bettencourt  |  January 22nd, 2011 at 11:21 pm

  One of the things that drew me to Cal Poly was the required trip to China for the Track One program. I thought it was pretty awesome that a business school found China so important and relevant that it required a trip there. The CNN article stated that business schools are reacting. Business is competitive by nature, and I believe that it is essential to be proactive in order to effectively compete in the business world. Why wouldn’t going to China or at least taking a course about China be required at all business schools? This would be the more proactive action. The Chinese are taking the time to learn about us, and it is absolutely necessary for us to take the time to learn about them.

  I also thought the idea of the double edged sword in the Business Week article was very insightful in describing both the positive and negative aspects of Chinese business school boom. It is great that China is becoming able to produce their own talent in their own b-schools, but it is also somewhat scary that their local talent has the Western know-how and skills due to a system based of the American system. Additionally, I found the discussion on the opportunity cost of taking 2 years off to pursue an MBA relevant to both Americans and Chinese. I know that I had to think carefully about my decision to quit my job and pursue and MBA in such a down economy. This parallels the decision many Chinese students must now make about taking the time off to pursue and MBA and missing out on the massive growth of their economy and possible pay out of continuing to work in that environment. The growth of the MBA in China during the last 15 years speaks volumes to how far they have come in that time.

• 51. Brady Haug  |  February 2nd, 2011 at 3:01 pm

  “The tremendous economic growth taking place in China is forcing executives to confront a unique set of challenges across business sectors — from supply chain management to information technology — to ensure that their organizations are prepared to respond on a global scale.” I feel as though this quote from the CNN article is the primary reason for our China trip. My undergraduate studies largely focused on supply chain management. Chances are that any industry I join (in the area of supply chain management), I will eventually be dealing with, at the very least, materials from a Chinese supplier. From what I have gathered, there are very few American MBAs that have the chance that we do, to tour China. For my particular area of interest, this gives me a massive advantage over other applicants. I haven’t particularly entertained the idea of taking a foreign job, but with the increasing trend of globalization, it is important for management to have a firm understanding of outsourcing/foreign business.

  I was unaware of China’s boom in executive schooling. I was aware that the United States is a magnet for foreign students, but it was interesting to hear how China’s B-schools have grown. “Many Chinese students, most of whom once sought their MBAs in the West, now stay put. By earning degrees closer to home, they avoid derailing their careers by leaving China — and all their business contacts — for two years or more.” This is a huge benefit to a China native, but I think it behooves them to not gain American experience. Just as the Bloomberg article mentions, prestigious American universities are highly regarded in China. In addition, I would think it is increasingly more important for a Chinese businessman to be well educated in American business.

• 52. Robbin Forsyth  |  February 4th, 2011 at 8:30 pm

  Over the last 30 years, Chinese companies have been able to acquire and adopt technologies at an accelerated rate through government mandated joint ventures with foreign firms. See an example - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704814204575507353221141616.html
  From what I’ve read, most of these foreign companies have accepted this situation for the opportunity to gain access to Chinese markets. It seems that part of the acceptance has also been an arrogant western attitude that “we” would always be able to stay ahead of them “them”. As long as western businesses maintain their role as the leaders in development and marketing of new technologies and/or services everything would be fine… A huge part of being able to maintain this edge is efficient business development, implementation and management.
  Now American universities are are engaging with or forming Chinese B-School programs and introducing contemporary business education in mass into the Chinese university system. This will change the paradigm of the global competitive landscape far into the future. As China is evolves the capabilities developing new technologies it will also be educating sharp business minds to bring these ideas to market. A key advantage of new Chinese managers will be a head start in the understanding of both US and European cultures and markets because of educations that are grounded in western business theory. This was reinforced in the TED talk by Martin Jaques. The biggest danger that the western world faces in the economic rise of China is obsolesce by ignorance. If we do not make an effort to understand the Chinese culture we will be left behind. As outlined in the Bloomberg article, the language barrier in itself is HUGE. All other criteria being equal, if you ran a multinational company would not hire new managers that spoke English and Chinese over English only speakers? Because of this alone I believe imperative that all westerners strive to expand their worldview. For business people in the 21st century this is mandatory.
  When looking at MBA programs I had two mandatory requirements. First on the list was an international business immersion/travel class. Although I have previously worked internationally, the world evolves quickly. I figured that if I am going to invest the sweat and money into an MBA, I want to be at the leading edge of how business education addresses these challenges. I don’t think I will be pursuing a job in China after school, (you never do know). But, I am quite sure that somehow, somewhere in the future I will be working with Chinese people in some capacity when I complete this MBA.

• 53. Jessie Wilkie  |  February 13th, 2011 at 10:02 am

  The CNN article made me laugh out loud with, “Those still skeptical of the upsurge in business in China need look no further than the Jade Buddha Monastery in Shanghai — where a first group of monks have just completed MBAs.” I mean this is not funny except for that it is funny in a dark, sad way. I think it is almost on par with “When hell freezes over…” or in this case, “When monks get MBAs…” What is the world coming to?

  I also think it’s amazing the growth which the Chinese B-Schools have realized. But it is nothing shocking since once would expect the growth to mirror that of the demand of the voracious economy. It will be interesting to see if China can meet its need for 75,000 executives in the coming years. I wonder if any of us Cal Poly folks will be among them.

  Most of us Cal Poly folks will likely compete with some of these MBAs from China–whether it be in our own country, abroad, or them working for a direct competitor. In anyway you dice it, it’s a big world, but it’s really quite small. I think it’s so important that we understand the culture, the practices, and maybe even the language of China (and India, Russia, Brazil, Iran, Iraq…etc.)

  I had a conversation the other day with a retired salesman and he told me something that he used to do and I thought it would be great to pass it on. He used to pick one country every year and research that country (the food, the culture, the history, the language) for a whole year. This year could be our China year guys and then who knows what your next year will be. But think about it, if you did it and stuck to it. It would no doubt be an invaluable skill set and something to talk about in interviews.

• 54. Kristine Spencer  |  February 13th, 2011 at 1:18 pm

  It’s undeniable that in order to be successful in today’s business world, one has to know how to do business with the Chinese. The complexities of Chinese culture and business justify spending time in China to see with your own eyes how things happen. The fact that this program takes the “learn by doing” approach seriously and allows us to observe business in China reflects on the high quality of Cal Poly and the western education system. But there is only so much you can learn about China from the US, and as the articles point out, so much more “China knowledge” can be gained from getting an MBA and experiencing China simultaneously. I feel that Cal Poly is offering the best of both worlds, with the benefits of a western education paired with the hands-on experience from our trip to China.

  I have serious concerns with getting an MBA in China, mainly the reputation of the Chinese education system. This has led the Chinese MBA programs to copy the western programs, which is a trend I don’t can last forever because the Chinese will need to adapt and alter the programs to best suit the unique set of problems in China. The entire education system in China is going to have to make some serious, fundamental changes to prepare their students for the business world. Some of the short falls include development of leadership skills, problem solving abilities, and English language skills. Possibly the worst problems described in the articles about some of the business schools were that they were of “poor quality,” taught in Mandarin “by poorly trained Chinese faculty,” and “are little more than diploma mills.” But I would never underestimate the ability of the Chinese to meet and unmet need, and the article states just how badly China needs educated managers.

  I have thought about taking a job in a foreign country before, mainly because I loved studying abroad so much and I love to travel. It wouldn’t be my first choice, but with globalization headed in its current direction, it is likely that a large percentage of MBA’s will work internationally at some time or another.

• 55. Jason Jay Sharma  |  February 14th, 2011 at 2:00 am

  In a previous post, I mentioned that experienced first-hand how working with China is vital for new and emerging business–this was when I was working at a travel start-up who outsourced to the Chinese for development purposes. Spending time at that company helped me to discover how important China really is in the current and future business market. That knowledge in addition to how much I enjoyed my undergraduate experience were the reasons I applied to Cal Poly’s MBA Track 1 program (and the only program I even bother applying too).

  All these articles ring one thing true, that courses on China should be integrated in b-schools not only in the U.S. or Europe, but around the world. Our Track 1 group is very fortunate that we already have such a module as part of the program. It would be nice to have a general regularly meeting China focused course in the Spring Quarter though (maybe a mix of 3 courses: Culture of China, International and Cross-Cultural Management, and Legal Environment of International Business with rotating professors).

  The Chinese are fully aware of their upper hand (the place to be doing business and the people who know how to work China), and both Bloomberg articles make this clear. To take advantage, China is bulking up on their MBA programs (even if many are still underdevelopment and just handing diplomas). It makes me very nervous to know that these Chinese MBA programs are able to pick up essential pointers from their counterpart U.S. programs and then add in their China-directed teachings. It essentially puts them at an advantage that cannot be duplicated abroad. It doesn’t surprise me that executives are looking to get a taste of this as in the CNN article.

  Following graduation, my plans were and intentions are naive to say the least. I wanted to move back to the Bay Area with a generous job and settle down–live in my little slice of heave. But the CNBC article has ruined that dream, for the most part. If I really want that generous position, should I stop looking in the Valley and head East instead? While I welcome China’s greater presence and ability to snatch MBA’s, I sure they don’t snatch all my future job opportunities. I can happily say I made the right decision with the OCOB, though. I do think our look into China will be most beneficial down the line.

• 56. Will Moeller  |  February 17th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

  In China everything is possible, but nothing is easy. That takes me back to my second favorite post - the Elliott Sweet rapper post. It’s a good reminder of what’s available for those willing to roll up their sleeves and get dirty (coincidentally, the videos of To Catch the Cubs you Must Enter the Tiger’s Lair).

  I’d like to make two points on the CNN article. First, a friend of mine graduated from the Notre Dame MBA program last May. He enjoyed the trip, but said it felt rushed. It seemed like more of a drive-by tour of China’s businesses that a true learning experience. Hopefully, (and my expectation is that) our trip will allow us to take a face-to-face look at China’s businesses. Second, the issue of language is important. I just came out of a discussion with a worker for a Silicon Valley company that said their company is more likely to pursue business opportunity in India because it is has more English speakers. The opportunity is there for those who want to learn Mandarin.

  I don’t have much to say about the Wharton article. It is interesting thought that B-school widely regarded as the best in the nation has 25% of its graduates going overseas. Wharton has seemingly responded quickly to meeting the overseas labor demand. It will be interesting to see if this trend persists. Finally, I’ve worked with one guy from Wharton in the past. I don’ think this board is the appropriate place to share though.

• 57. Sarah Weinzapfel  |  February 18th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

  I never thought about attending a business school overseas. Now that think about that option, it would make a lot of sense, depending on the industry that someone wants to work in, to attend school in an emerging economy like China. One of the features that made me choose this program was our trip to China. There’s just no two ways about it; this trip can’t be anything but beneficial.

  I was excited to read in the first article that companies in Europe are strongly recommending that MBA degrees received by employees must be from a school with a Chinese module built in. It almost made me feel like I was a part of something important and cutting-edge (not that I ever thought Cal Poly was anything less). With China’s emergence, it only makes sense for MBA programs to include a module on China.

  I thought the second article didn’t necessarily take a different view on MBA programs in China, but it gave a better picture of business schools there, including the strengths and weaknesses. I wouldn’t expect their business schools that have Western counterparts, or any of them for that matter, to have poor English speaking professors and weak curriculum. There was another post that included an article that discussed the mass amounts of Chinese learning English. Why wouldn’t teachers teaching in these programs which began to make their managers more efficient on a global scale, not be able to even speak, much less teach another language. Although they have created these programs within the last 15 years, you would think they would be just as strong as the Western schools whose models they copied.

  The blog reminded me of my strong resistance toward working in a foreign country. Maybe a better word for resistance would be fear. I think it’s amazing when American students travel to China for a degree like this when we have so many prestigious schools here. They realize the opportunity over there and go for it.

• 58. Matt Streiter  |  February 18th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

  The overlying theme in all the articles is that the traditional MBA has changed. With business becoming more and more globalized the demand for MBA’s has stretched far among the domestic need. With U.S. MBA’s falling short in being familiar with Chinese culture seems to leave us at a huge disadvantage when being compared to Chinese MBA’s on the surface level when they are being taught in English on their homeland. I know when I was getting my undergrad I noticed a lot of Chinese students coming in from overseas to study at an American university. I find it interesting that I found the number of foreign students to be high then when apparently the number has been decreasing over the years. I can only imagine what the number was when it was at its prime.

  I think when comparing the two it is important to look at the quality. The second article references that some universities are diploma mills and others are teaching off cases from Harvard that really do not apply with Chinese business practices. Taking factors like these into consideration you have to realize that the China MBA degree may be valued less due to a lower quality and less practical curriculum. If the material being taught in these colleges is not applicable to the environment that they will be conducting business in than you have to question the effectiveness of the material.

  The crash course that is being provided by employers I believe are helpful so managers are not going into their business practices completely blind but there is obviously a ton of information that cannot be fit into that condensed training session. Regardless, in this situation some is better than none. As the Chinese MBA program continues to mature and get refined I do believe it could run the possibility of lowering the value of the U.S. MBA degree. When the program overseas is able to perfect the integration of both cultures and business practices to where an MBA can be proficient in each will be when the MBA’s here will be at a disadvantage.

• 59. Tim Easton  |  February 18th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

  One of the major selling points of Cal Poly’s MBA program was the business study tour in China, and the fact I could get an MBA in one year. The fact that Cal Poly recognized the importance of doing business in China, and required students to become familiar with China, was important to me. I was not aware that US business schools were partnering with Chinese schools to offer MBA’s, but this seems like a great idea. With the need for 75,000 executives there is definitely great potential for MBA’s in China. It will be cool to see if any of us become one of those executives.

  I found the CNBC article, “Wharton Grads Head to Far East for Jobs” the most interesting in this blog post. I completely agree with their saying, “as the economy gets better, they get pickier, and as it gets worse, they get a little less picky” about students being picky when finding a job. I know I was pretty picky after graduating from undergrad, even though I probably shouldn’t have been. I am also curious about the international application rate at the Wharton School, because they said that 40 percent of their candidates were international but the Business Week article, “China’s B-School Boom”, said that more Chinese students were staying in China to get their MBA. It is great to be aware of this current trend because most of us will compete, or work with, someone who received an MBA in China at least once.

• 60. Jessica Shayler  |  February 21st, 2011 at 10:38 pm

  As China continues to impress us with their economic growth, it will be interesting to see how our educational “supply chain” reacts. That is, how (if at all) will our k-12 education change in order to meet the requirements of universities who (might) have changed to meet the new requirements of today’s (and tomorrow’s) businesses? With a changing global stage, there are many opportunities for businesses to capitalize on. I think Dan’s comment is on par on this point: ” The opportunity for MBAs…[is to] act as a bridge between American companies and Chinese opportunities.” MBAs who understand the PRC will be more valuable to their companies precisely because they are able to take advantage of the opportunities that exist to create wealth for both parties. One country’s economic growth does not have to be a zero-sum game.

  But what happens xx years from now when there is a new nation taking the global spotlight? Do we dump China and who this new nation? Jessie’s advice: “This year could be our China year guys and then who knows what your next year will be?” I think approaching globalization from a balanced perspective will ultimately be more profitable for all parties. Sure, focus on the main actors now, but don’t neglect the understudies - China may break a leg…

• 61. Ashley Ogden  |  February 24th, 2011 at 9:04 am

  These articles definitely highlight the importance of having China experience in today’s business world. All companies are going to have to deal with China in one way or another, so it makes sense that they would want business students with knowledge about the complex country. It is not surprising that China’s business schools have grown at an unbelievable pace, because so did the rest of the country. It is great that China has recognized and supported the importance of higher education. They understand that their next generation will benefit from having business knowledge as their country continues to become one of the World’s biggest business powers (or the biggest?). I will not be surprised if they are able to reach the goal of having 75,000 top-level executives in the near future. It is hard for China to surprise anymore; they have already surpassed everyone’s expectations and this will be no different. Even if some of the British and American business schools leave, I am sure that the Chinese universities will pick up the slack. China seems like they would do anything to secure their spot at the top of the world business leaders list. They don’t need foreign business schools to set up in China; they can produce their own MBAs without anyone’s help. It is amazing what China has accomplished without a lot of managers, I can’t wait to see what they accomplish once they have a whole generation of them.

• 62. Anthony Kallioinen  |  February 26th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

  This post makes this class really hit home for me. China is the future and I’m sorry to admit how ignorant I have been in years past. I feel already that I have learned so much about this extremely important country and I hope to leverage some of my experience from this class in my future career. Investors are always looking for the next thing to ‘take off,’ it would be silly for me to not invest in myself to learn how to work in/with China. I’m really grateful that this program is offering us this opportunity as MBAs.

  It is amazing to me the level of sophistication that Chinese business schools have achieved in such a short time (the theme of China). The second article (China’s B-School Boom) pointed out that China’s top-tier B-Schools borrow the U.S. model so that they can train Chinese on the mainland instead of exporting their talent to get trained in the U.S. This makes me wonder if the paradigm will be shifted in the next twenty years. With China’s extreme economic development, maybe they will take our curriculum, adapt it and then export it back to the States so that western executives can learn how to operate in the (not Chinese dominated) global market. Another scary thought about the U.S. falling by the wayside.

• 63. j hurley  |  February 26th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

  I feel that any experience with business outside the U.S. is a must have for all MBAs as well as for many other industries. Being able to travel to China to see how business works there is really a big plus to the program. It will be a very valuable experience due to the fact that so much of business both in the U.S. and around the world is centered around China.
  In general, I feel that many Americans lack experience with business outside the U.S. This may be the result from the fact that in the past America has never been so reliant and involved with other countries like it is now. However, with increasing transparency, distance is no longer a boundry.

• 64. Tyler Sereno  |  February 27th, 2011 at 8:49 pm

  I think it is great the Cal Poly Orfalea College of Business offers the opportunity to go an a business study tour in China as part of the MBA program. Involvement with China is becoming increasingly important and I am excited to observe the Chinese business culture during our trip. The articles listed above were very interesting.

  More companies are looking to hire students who achieved their MBAs in China. It is their language skills and exposure to the Chinese culture that gives them an advantage. MBAs are becoming very important and valuable. I found it amazing that the first group of monks have completed their MBAs. You just do not picture a business setting when you picture monks, but this just shows how the world is changing. China is also recognizing the overwhelming importance of establishing business schools. It was mentioned in the Business Week article that more Chinese students go to school in China so that they do not fall behind those who stay in China.

  The pros and cons of hiring someone who obtained an MBA within China were interesting to read about. It is important to hire students who possess the knowledge of Chinese culture and language, but it is allowing Chinese companies to gain the management knowhow needed to go head-to-head with global giants. China’s economy is growing rapidly. It surprised me to learn from the CNBC article that 25% of Wharton graduates take jobs in other countries. The global aspect of business is becoming very important.

• 65. Randy Camat  |  March 4th, 2011 at 11:25 am

  In 2008 while I was still doing my undergrad here at Cal Poly, I made the decision to look into the MBA program, so I went to one of the MBA/EMP information sessions hosted by Dr. Carr. In that meeting, I remember how enthusiastic he was (and still today) about China and the China business trip the MBA program offered. At the time, I didn’t think much of the trip - only as a fun opportunity to go to visit another country. However, with the current relations between the United States and China, it is very important to understand and study China, and I believe this course has done a great job in doing that. The business trip to China is a way to experience, first hand, the importance of China to any business and especially to anyone’s career.

• 66. Tara Millard  |  March 5th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

  The CNN Article highlights and reinforces the importance of understanding China as an MBA. In this day and age, it is crucial to understand China in order to be competitive in the global market. Although our trip to China is a start, this article highlights the importance of being immersed in China’s business culture. Perhaps a quarter long study abroad in China is in the near future at Cal Poly. While our trip will serve as a great educational experience, a study abroad in China would maximize the level of understanding and maximize MBA graduates chance of success in the global market. This article mentions that Universities are scrambling to include this in their curriculum, yet Cal Poly is ahead of the curve. A longer stay in China will provide a stronger emphasis on international business and Cal Poly has the potential be at the forefront of this movement.

  The article on China’s B School Boom further emphasizes the immense capabilities of the Chinese. They are growing at an unprecedented rate. If this growth continues, the China that will emerge in a decade will be leaps and bounds above the United States in terms of economy, education etc. “China is borrowing what it can and creating what it needs.” China is not relying on pure innovation, but it is borrowing models of success from other Countries and innovating where necessary. This model of growth in ingenious and will allow China to continue to accomplish things in a fraction of the time it took their predecessors.

• 67. Ben Raymond  |  March 8th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

  The China trip in the one-year program was a huge draw for me in attending Cal Poly. I was very aware that China was on the rise and was excited to see that the Cal Poly program was offering first hand experience. Clearly they have the right idea as many other business schools are following suit, as shown by the CNN article. I thought the article did an excellent job of explaining how important it is for MBA students to be familiar with China. The business world is so competitive that falling behind a market like China is unacceptable and a certain way to miss out on opportunity.

  I liked how the Business week article discussed the positives and the negatives of the extreme growth in Chinese business schools. It will be interesting to see if China stays with the Western model of management education or if they shift to their own style. Also I will be curious to see if they is a flow of foreigners into the Chinese business schools in the future like there is into the U.S. ones today. The opportunity in China is very exciting and I am very glad that I am apart of a school that is recognizing it.

• 68. Kyle R.  |  March 8th, 2011 at 10:31 pm

  These articles shed light on the value of getting an MBA with some sort of Chinese experience. I can see why international firms place so much value on management combined with understanding the environment and culture in which they are operating. I’m thankful that Cal Poly offers the chance for students to get some exposure to China before starting their career. This opportunity was definitely a selling point for me when choosing where to get my MBA. I thought it would be a great opportunity to visit China, but more importantly, a chance to experience China’s economy in this rapid change.

  I also found it interesting that there are so many people getting their MBA’s in China. One article stated that China has developed in 15 years what took the United States half a century. I understand that they adopted the practices of many U.S. institutions, but still, that’s quite an accomplishment. I think there are definitely pros and cons of getting your MBA in each country, but the ambition of the graduate really makes the difference. For some people, it may be harder to accomplish certain goals depending on the country of origin, education, and business.

• 69. Amanda Podesta  |  March 13th, 2011 at 11:28 pm

  Reading about how prevalent and subjective MBA programs seem to be (as suggested by the articles), I wonder if the degree of higher education just like the collateral of a high school diploma will become diluted. I guess it will be telling if MBA graduates have to defend their institution with knowledge gleaned from the programs during job interviews?
  But somehow, I don’t think that American institutions will have much to fear from Study-Abroad programs hosted in China for a while yet. While we’d like to believe how literate and equitable business has become on the global scale, after read and watched now about expats’ experiences [i.e. problems] with doing business in China, I see how dangerous such an assumption would be. Cookie-cutter institutions offering MBAs are just riding a fad.

• 70. J Vail  |  March 14th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

  It is clear at this point that China is going to be, if not already, the central business partner of the rest of the globe. I’m glad to see that in all of the articles there is an initiative to adapt to this trend and that actual programs are being established to properly train foreigners how to conduct business in China. I think there is still some lag time until a majority of students are trained at a competent level, but schools are taking the right path.

  Although initially I wasn’t eager to do these assignments, the more I learn about China it seems like I find out about how much more I don’t know at the same time. Immersion is essential to understand the Chinese business culture, and now it seems more obvious how valuable this trip will be to our degree. Even though the trend is to learn about China as well, I feel like we are a little ahead of the main curve so that will be an advantage for us as well.

• 71. Chris F.  |  March 17th, 2011 at 11:47 am

  As an MBA student, it is important to know the business environment that we will eventually work in once we graduate. This is especially true if we want to be competitive in a market such as China, probably the most important market outside of our own here in the United States. I am fortunate in this MBA/EMP program to get the exposure to China that may give me a slight edge over another MBA student from elsewhere; if anything, the experience will add to my overall knowledge of the world in general. With the projected need of executives to work in China, maybe I’ll make my way over there in the future. Now if I can only learn to be fluent in Mandarin.

  China and their business schools might be modeled after U.S. schools but have built up way faster (15 years verses 50 years is incredibly fast). I think it is good that many European and American schools are partnering with Chinese schools to create a good MBA program because they see value in such a program. However from the articles, there will be a future problem of over saturation of MBA graduates on the market sometime in the future if many Chinese schools just keep on pumping out MBA grads (diploma mills they call them). Then it will weigh more on where you received your MBA degree from rather than just having an MBA. Regardless, there will be people going to China, either for grad school or as a visiting delegation from a non-Chinese graduate school and I think that gives them a perspective that many others don’t get the opportunity for.

• 72. JP Salazar  |  March 17th, 2011 at 3:14 pm

  When I first looked through the requirements for receiving an MBA from Cal Poly is was really excited to see we get to go to China. At first this feeling was purely personal as I have always wanted to go the Asia but never really thought about how Chinese development affected me. The more I am exposed to the policies and changes happening in China, the more grateful I am that Cal Poly has decided to put a lot of focus on it. Our world is getting smaller everyday through globalization and the use of technology. We are no longer isolated from the rest of the world. It is important to see how the world around us, not just China, is changing so that we can more forward and make informed decisions.
  China is going to become one of the world political and economic leaders in the near future. It is not a question of if, but when. Putting your head in the sand and ignoring the issue does not change the fact that China’s role in every American’s daily life is growing. As an example, according to a recent Bloomberg Businessweek, each American owes, on average $140,000 to the Chinese government. It is the Chinese economy that bolsters and maintains the American standard of living. Being aware of how my life is entwined with China is an important concept to understand.
  I feel more confident going out into the business world to start my future knowing I have at least some base knowledge about how China will play a role in my life. Without this understanding I would feel like I was at a major disadvantage compared to those that I will be competing for jobs with. Now I feel that if I do not keep up with China and the economic development of other countries I will not have an edge when looking for a job. Interestingly, I never knew how much of a disadvantage I was at until I was exposed to this issue through this China trip. Ignorance really is bliss.

• 73. Omar Pradhan  |  March 18th, 2011 at 2:15 pm

  Not all MBAs are created equal; those that fail to deliver deserve to fail. Whether an MBA has value is highly dependent upon the extent to which the information is contextually appropriate (e.g. Harvard case studies are not always contextually meaningful for Chinese students) AND the extent to which the pedagogy of the school is focused on deep learning. As a former educator in one of the top 5 undergraduate programs in the nation, I was responsible for delivering deep educational learning experiences, spanning from the lowest to the highest levels of learning: Rote Memorization, Understanding, Application, & Correlation. What is remarkable about our Cal Poly MBA is that, thanks to the “Learn by Doing” tradition, much of our curriculum delves into the deepest levels of learning. Case in point, we get to experience China as a capstone to our MBA! Another point from the articles was the tremendous growth in MBAs within China and the point about a virtuous cycle of better run companies through more MBAs and EMBAs. I am certainly all for professionalizing businesses across the globe. Through professionalization, we can garner greater efficiency and, ultimately, greater shared prosperity.

• 74. Vladimir  |  January 14th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

  Looks like a tradeoff for American students planning to work in China after earning their MBAs. Top American MBA programs are two to four times as expensive as those in China. But a degree from Stanford, Harvard, or Wharton will be recognized worldwide. An American school would be better for students who are uncertain if they will take off to China after graduation. If a China module is included in the program, or if the student spends a semester studying in China, he or she would graduate with a more prestigious MBA and enough China exposure to do business there. On the other hand, a student who is set on working in China may want to attend a Chinese program that was the product of a partnership with a top American school. The advantages include a focus on Chinese case studies and more exposure to the Chinese business and culture. I would not recommend an American student apply only to a Chinese MBA program because he or she could apply to only one program at a time. There are only 12 AACSB accredited business schools in China, there are almost 500 in the US, so the opportunity to attend a MBA program in China is currently only worthwhile to students who get accepted by the top Chinese schools.

• 75. Kevin K.  |  January 15th, 2012 at 7:15 pm

  I remember way back in 2006 as an undergrad I was fulfilling my foreign language requirement by taking a few quarters of Spanish. I was interning in the Athletic Dept. at UCSB and one of the directors told me I was wasting my time, and should be taking Mandarin. At the time I thought he was crazy — whereas I thought it was more important to learn how to order a cerveza in Mexico in full Spanish… I now understand how prescient that statement turned out to be, especially with the reinforcement from the CNN and Business Week articles present.

  However, judging by the addendum posted, it appears the China may become saturated with MBAs — as the article states “Thirty Chinese universities are now authorized by Beijing to provide executive MBA programs.” Nevertheless, stateside it is still in our best interests — as MBA students — to be well versed in China. Not to mention the great differentiation and worldly knowledge this China trip offers experientially and for one’s resume.

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The posts, comments and/or views expressed on this trip blog, whether by a Cal Poly student or faculty or an outside guest to the blog, do not necessarily reflect the policies or views of Cal Poly, the Orfalea College of Business (OCOB), any of the OCOB's graduate programs and/or other students who participate in the trip.