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	<title>Comments on: Culture and the &#8220;Chinese Mindset&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/</link>
	<description>The MBA Graduate Program at Cal Poly</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jason Larocco</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-11403</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Larocco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-11403</guid>
		<description>After reading the post and attached articles my feeling is the following… Go to any other major city in the U.S. dress liked a tourist, wander around aimlessly, and tell me whether or not you get taken advantage of by a taxi cab driver, street vendor, store owner, etc.  Doing business is no different.  Go in to a negotiation with a customer or a vendor from any country unprepared and tell me that you don’t get taken advantage of.

People get frustrated when doing business in Asia because we don’t understand their version of the game thoroughly enough.  I do not have the extensive experience that others in this blog chain do, but I have lived through a couple experienced where I have been “cheated” and “lied to”.

One quick example is the use of certificates of conformance with vendors in China.  When I design a mold I include build specifications for that design.  Upon completion of the build for a mold the vendor will send me a letter certifying that the mold is in conformance with my design and build specifications.  My assumption is that every single vendor I use in China (or domestically for that matter) values the significance of this letter the same way that I do.  Obviously this assumption does not play out in the real world.  Our relationship is complicated by the fact that the value of the piece of paper and the legal system that enforces its value are not common between us.  After understanding that a certificate of conformance meant next to nothing to my vendors I changed my approach.  I started to put more effort in to face to face time and explanations of the functional reasoning behind my design specifications.  I also had to learn what materials were not as readily available in China and then design around those limitations.  I feel this created greater success than trying to explain why a piece of paper was so important.  My co-workers who choose to only push the importance of the piece of paper eventually they got tired of being “cheated” and “lied to”.

I guess my point is that evaluating the circumstances when you and others have been cheated is important.  If evaluated properly you can find the common elements that create a more common playing field to do business on.  This is not easy and those who can create this common playing field will be the most successful.  Blog interactions like this one provide a good environment for this evaluation and they help all of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading the post and attached articles my feeling is the following… Go to any other major city in the U.S. dress liked a tourist, wander around aimlessly, and tell me whether or not you get taken advantage of by a taxi cab driver, street vendor, store owner, etc.  Doing business is no different.  Go in to a negotiation with a customer or a vendor from any country unprepared and tell me that you don’t get taken advantage of.</p>
<p>People get frustrated when doing business in Asia because we don’t understand their version of the game thoroughly enough.  I do not have the extensive experience that others in this blog chain do, but I have lived through a couple experienced where I have been “cheated” and “lied to”.</p>
<p>One quick example is the use of certificates of conformance with vendors in China.  When I design a mold I include build specifications for that design.  Upon completion of the build for a mold the vendor will send me a letter certifying that the mold is in conformance with my design and build specifications.  My assumption is that every single vendor I use in China (or domestically for that matter) values the significance of this letter the same way that I do.  Obviously this assumption does not play out in the real world.  Our relationship is complicated by the fact that the value of the piece of paper and the legal system that enforces its value are not common between us.  After understanding that a certificate of conformance meant next to nothing to my vendors I changed my approach.  I started to put more effort in to face to face time and explanations of the functional reasoning behind my design specifications.  I also had to learn what materials were not as readily available in China and then design around those limitations.  I feel this created greater success than trying to explain why a piece of paper was so important.  My co-workers who choose to only push the importance of the piece of paper eventually they got tired of being “cheated” and “lied to”.</p>
<p>I guess my point is that evaluating the circumstances when you and others have been cheated is important.  If evaluated properly you can find the common elements that create a more common playing field to do business on.  This is not easy and those who can create this common playing field will be the most successful.  Blog interactions like this one provide a good environment for this evaluation and they help all of us.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Miller</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10238</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10238</guid>
		<description>I think the most important to be learned from this post and life in general is to judge a person by their actions, and their actions alone. Even if you meet 100 people from one country, and every single one tries to lie and steal from you, you still shouldn't hold the 101st person liable for your experience with the others. Every single person is different, regardless of their culture or the country they are from. I'm not saying that you should ignore cultural differences, but to judge an entire country off of a few people that you meet is just ignorant. 

As for companies stealing from the people the pay enormous prices for their products, I don't think it's stealing. Do you really need that leather handbag that has some stupid logo on it? No. If you want it that badly then you can pay for it. Props to the company for getting you to want to pay that much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the most important to be learned from this post and life in general is to judge a person by their actions, and their actions alone. Even if you meet 100 people from one country, and every single one tries to lie and steal from you, you still shouldn&#8217;t hold the 101st person liable for your experience with the others. Every single person is different, regardless of their culture or the country they are from. I&#8217;m not saying that you should ignore cultural differences, but to judge an entire country off of a few people that you meet is just ignorant. </p>
<p>As for companies stealing from the people the pay enormous prices for their products, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s stealing. Do you really need that leather handbag that has some stupid logo on it? No. If you want it that badly then you can pay for it. Props to the company for getting you to want to pay that much.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Cook</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10204</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10204</guid>
		<description>It seems from the lists on the linked blogs that Chinese and American mindset are so different and are rooted in such different histories and cultures that it would be impossible to put together an actual set of rules that are expected to be followed while doing business between the two countries. Without any such rules, who defines what is cheating and what is being strategic? It seems that the most effective way to avoid being “cheated” or “stolen from” is to learn everything you can about how the Chinese do business and then gain a ton of experience working with them. If you get lied to or cheated, at least you’ve learned the lesson. 

I was trying to decide what I would say if a Chinese woman asked me why so many women quit work when they have children. I think it would be hard to explain coming from different backgrounds. Also, I’m not sure I know why so many women quit work to be home with their children. I know it is supposed to be better to raise kids at home than to send them to day care, but why don’t more women work from home? I’ll have to put more thought into it before I get confronted with that in China…Although I would love to hear the argument on why it is strange to quit work. 

Also, I wonder what experiences students on the trip had the year they returned thinking that the Chinese lie, cheat and steal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems from the lists on the linked blogs that Chinese and American mindset are so different and are rooted in such different histories and cultures that it would be impossible to put together an actual set of rules that are expected to be followed while doing business between the two countries. Without any such rules, who defines what is cheating and what is being strategic? It seems that the most effective way to avoid being “cheated” or “stolen from” is to learn everything you can about how the Chinese do business and then gain a ton of experience working with them. If you get lied to or cheated, at least you’ve learned the lesson. </p>
<p>I was trying to decide what I would say if a Chinese woman asked me why so many women quit work when they have children. I think it would be hard to explain coming from different backgrounds. Also, I’m not sure I know why so many women quit work to be home with their children. I know it is supposed to be better to raise kids at home than to send them to day care, but why don’t more women work from home? I’ll have to put more thought into it before I get confronted with that in China…Although I would love to hear the argument on why it is strange to quit work. </p>
<p>Also, I wonder what experiences students on the trip had the year they returned thinking that the Chinese lie, cheat and steal.</p>
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		<title>By: Logan J Travis</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10202</link>
		<dc:creator>Logan J Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10202</guid>
		<description>Hmm, I wonder if the day will come when Americans earn their "lie, cheat, and steal" merit badge. The recent rumblings in the financial sector furthered that aim significantly. I was especially amused to read about Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao calling the security of U.S. treasuries into question. Of course he wants reassurance, anyone would when they see a debtors account displaying "trillion" repeatedly written in red ink.

I think the important things to realize is that cultures don't "lie, cheat, and steal," individuals do. A person also only breaks social decency standards when he/she perceive it as equitable. So, if you find yourself saying a country or people can only "lie, cheat, and steal" consider two things: 1) You're wrong and 2) Don't add another incentive to people to behave ignobly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, I wonder if the day will come when Americans earn their &#8220;lie, cheat, and steal&#8221; merit badge. The recent rumblings in the financial sector furthered that aim significantly. I was especially amused to read about Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao calling the security of U.S. treasuries into question. Of course he wants reassurance, anyone would when they see a debtors account displaying &#8220;trillion&#8221; repeatedly written in red ink.</p>
<p>I think the important things to realize is that cultures don&#8217;t &#8220;lie, cheat, and steal,&#8221; individuals do. A person also only breaks social decency standards when he/she perceive it as equitable. So, if you find yourself saying a country or people can only &#8220;lie, cheat, and steal&#8221; consider two things: 1) You&#8217;re wrong and 2) Don&#8217;t add another incentive to people to behave ignobly.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Hastings</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10182</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Hastings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10182</guid>
		<description>I am pretty sure that a lot (not all b/c that is a generalization) of Chinese probably have a negative perception of Americans. A lot of it is due to our diplomacy over the past few years especially with our war on terror. It has not won us any brownie points with the world. 

I ran into this in New Zealand of all places this last summer. One night we were out partying with some Kiwi fiends and essentially my girlfriend and I were verbally attacked by our friends for the U.S. involvement in Iraq. It was apparent that this was common for Kiwi's to have a negative view of Americans. To them we were simply power hungry consumers that had to exploit the world to continue our luxurious life. However, just because we ran into a bad generalization about American's doesn't leave the door open for us to do so when we go to China. As stated in the article, generalizations set you up for failure. As tough as it may be, you have to try to have an open mind and throw generalizations out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am pretty sure that a lot (not all b/c that is a generalization) of Chinese probably have a negative perception of Americans. A lot of it is due to our diplomacy over the past few years especially with our war on terror. It has not won us any brownie points with the world. </p>
<p>I ran into this in New Zealand of all places this last summer. One night we were out partying with some Kiwi fiends and essentially my girlfriend and I were verbally attacked by our friends for the U.S. involvement in Iraq. It was apparent that this was common for Kiwi&#8217;s to have a negative view of Americans. To them we were simply power hungry consumers that had to exploit the world to continue our luxurious life. However, just because we ran into a bad generalization about American&#8217;s doesn&#8217;t leave the door open for us to do so when we go to China. As stated in the article, generalizations set you up for failure. As tough as it may be, you have to try to have an open mind and throw generalizations out.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashley Breneman</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10156</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley Breneman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10156</guid>
		<description>I definitely do not think that a generalization can not be made based on one person's experience and encounters with Chinese business people.  After watching the video of the three British men trying to get rich in China, you definitely saw some of the men being taken advantage of.  However, I do not view this as the Chinese men cheating, lying, and stealing.  I look at it as them doing business.  Just as many companies are outsourcing because they can have a large profit margin, the Chinese companies are going to in turn get the most they can out of us.  If we are already paying much lower prices than in the states, then why wouldn't they try to make the selling prices a little higher.  In my opinion, the foreigners who get taken advantage of are those who do not know how to do business with people in China.  They are beyond ignorant if they think that the Chinese people will just offer to give them the lowest prices possible.  After all, it is business.

I also thought it was interesting thinking about the fact that so many companies greatly increase prices in the United States that don't even cost a tenth of the price to make.  I think every time any of us wants to make a generalization on the trip we need to dig deep and look at our own culture.  There are many business people out there who are just as deceptive as the next.  We get the choice of whether we want to practice our business in this manner.  In the end, the best way to avoid being cheated is to be very prepared and know what to expect from the companies and executives you will be dealing with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely do not think that a generalization can not be made based on one person&#8217;s experience and encounters with Chinese business people.  After watching the video of the three British men trying to get rich in China, you definitely saw some of the men being taken advantage of.  However, I do not view this as the Chinese men cheating, lying, and stealing.  I look at it as them doing business.  Just as many companies are outsourcing because they can have a large profit margin, the Chinese companies are going to in turn get the most they can out of us.  If we are already paying much lower prices than in the states, then why wouldn&#8217;t they try to make the selling prices a little higher.  In my opinion, the foreigners who get taken advantage of are those who do not know how to do business with people in China.  They are beyond ignorant if they think that the Chinese people will just offer to give them the lowest prices possible.  After all, it is business.</p>
<p>I also thought it was interesting thinking about the fact that so many companies greatly increase prices in the United States that don&#8217;t even cost a tenth of the price to make.  I think every time any of us wants to make a generalization on the trip we need to dig deep and look at our own culture.  There are many business people out there who are just as deceptive as the next.  We get the choice of whether we want to practice our business in this manner.  In the end, the best way to avoid being cheated is to be very prepared and know what to expect from the companies and executives you will be dealing with.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Eves</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10129</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Eves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 01:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10129</guid>
		<description>Corey’s comments are worth noting because he has lived and experienced the Chinese business arena.  The more people you talk to - the different ends of the spectrum you'll hear.  I found interesting his assessment that poverty and a fear of being left behind drives business practice.  So, in fact, in may not be lie, cheat and steal so much as survival of the fittest.  Stereotyping is a foolish and horrible thing that we all are guilty of but as Raquel said,  "do your best to prove them wrong."  People will always surprise you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corey’s comments are worth noting because he has lived and experienced the Chinese business arena.  The more people you talk to - the different ends of the spectrum you&#8217;ll hear.  I found interesting his assessment that poverty and a fear of being left behind drives business practice.  So, in fact, in may not be lie, cheat and steal so much as survival of the fittest.  Stereotyping is a foolish and horrible thing that we all are guilty of but as Raquel said,  &#8220;do your best to prove them wrong.&#8221;  People will always surprise you.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Neal</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10104</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10104</guid>
		<description>The issue of over generalization of a culture is always very scary.  If you immediately pigeonhole a society, you take yourself out of any potential learning that you may experience when actually meeting someone from a particular culture.  I think that this rings particularly true when trying to pigeonhole a country of over 1.2 billion people.  Just try and think about the “typical American”.  I know for a fact the stereotypes from the “deep south” are much different than a surfer kid from San Diego, or the cowboy from Texas.  (I know I’m stereotyping by area here)  This being said America is a country of only about 300 million.  Are we seriously ignorant enough to think that we can classify a country four times the size?!?  I am sure, just like every country that there are people that defy the traditional characteristics of being “Chinese”.  This said I also believe that there is a reason behind virtually every stereotype out there, whether true or not.

I believe that with China it all comes down to differences in culture.  Something that may seem completely innocent and normal to a Chinese person can come off completely different to an American.  This is not due to truly trying to deceive one another, but simply a misunderstanding of what is normal in a culture and what isn’t.  Until you sit back and try to understand WHY someone is doing something you will never understand how to deal with them, both on your terms as well as theirs.  One of the things that I found interesting in the stereotypes present of the Chinese was the seemingly contradictory “never trust anyone” but also that networking was essential.  In America it is trust and relationships that builds your network; it seems hard to have one without the other.  

When experiencing a person from another culture I think it is best to take everyone one at a time.  Over generalizations can lead to missed contacts, business relationships, and opportunities.  Although there may be reasons for stereotypes, take everyone for who they are and then make decisions about them as a person, not where they are from, or what culture they may belong to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue of over generalization of a culture is always very scary.  If you immediately pigeonhole a society, you take yourself out of any potential learning that you may experience when actually meeting someone from a particular culture.  I think that this rings particularly true when trying to pigeonhole a country of over 1.2 billion people.  Just try and think about the “typical American”.  I know for a fact the stereotypes from the “deep south” are much different than a surfer kid from San Diego, or the cowboy from Texas.  (I know I’m stereotyping by area here)  This being said America is a country of only about 300 million.  Are we seriously ignorant enough to think that we can classify a country four times the size?!?  I am sure, just like every country that there are people that defy the traditional characteristics of being “Chinese”.  This said I also believe that there is a reason behind virtually every stereotype out there, whether true or not.</p>
<p>I believe that with China it all comes down to differences in culture.  Something that may seem completely innocent and normal to a Chinese person can come off completely different to an American.  This is not due to truly trying to deceive one another, but simply a misunderstanding of what is normal in a culture and what isn’t.  Until you sit back and try to understand WHY someone is doing something you will never understand how to deal with them, both on your terms as well as theirs.  One of the things that I found interesting in the stereotypes present of the Chinese was the seemingly contradictory “never trust anyone” but also that networking was essential.  In America it is trust and relationships that builds your network; it seems hard to have one without the other.  </p>
<p>When experiencing a person from another culture I think it is best to take everyone one at a time.  Over generalizations can lead to missed contacts, business relationships, and opportunities.  Although there may be reasons for stereotypes, take everyone for who they are and then make decisions about them as a person, not where they are from, or what culture they may belong to.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex vanDalen</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10072</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex vanDalen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10072</guid>
		<description>Don’t all people “lie, cheat, steal”…? Maybe not each person as it is much harder to make any generalizations when talk about individuals, however I can think of plenty of examples of blatant dishonesty, fraud, and worse from every single culture in every single time period. It is human nature to do these things and anyone who accuses others of this behavior is conveniently forgetting all the many instances whey they have themselves been less than honest. 
I believe that stereotypes exist primarily out of laziness. When speaking about a large enough population of any type, one can easily make overarching statements that fit the mark. Take the fortune cookie I got the other day for example, it said “You are rational and introspective”.  Well thank you very much but I believe just about everyone thinks about their own existence and believes that they are rational in their analysis. Generalizations are generally useless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don’t all people “lie, cheat, steal”…? Maybe not each person as it is much harder to make any generalizations when talk about individuals, however I can think of plenty of examples of blatant dishonesty, fraud, and worse from every single culture in every single time period. It is human nature to do these things and anyone who accuses others of this behavior is conveniently forgetting all the many instances whey they have themselves been less than honest.<br />
I believe that stereotypes exist primarily out of laziness. When speaking about a large enough population of any type, one can easily make overarching statements that fit the mark. Take the fortune cookie I got the other day for example, it said “You are rational and introspective”.  Well thank you very much but I believe just about everyone thinks about their own existence and believes that they are rational in their analysis. Generalizations are generally useless.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Hickman</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10070</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Hickman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2006/china/the-chinese-mindset/#comment-10070</guid>
		<description>I think that Raquel painted the picture best with her examples of Chinese and American stereotypes. These and a thousand other falsities plague our perceptions of people from different countries, cultures, cities, states, and colleges. The truth is that we are all people and really the only thing that someone can accurately generalize about human beings is that we all are bombarded with wrong information. Sure there are Americans that are greedy and own guns. Sure there are some Chinese who are great at math and can’t drive. But to generalize an entire population with over 1/6th of the earth’s population is just stupid. How does this happen? Why do people allow a bad experience with someone that is from a different culture or place that they turn into an idea applying to everyone from that area or of that culture? We all need to check ourselves before making a statement that could damage our credibility. I know I am guilty of stereotyping and I think we all are. We just need to be a little more careful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that Raquel painted the picture best with her examples of Chinese and American stereotypes. These and a thousand other falsities plague our perceptions of people from different countries, cultures, cities, states, and colleges. The truth is that we are all people and really the only thing that someone can accurately generalize about human beings is that we all are bombarded with wrong information. Sure there are Americans that are greedy and own guns. Sure there are some Chinese who are great at math and can’t drive. But to generalize an entire population with over 1/6th of the earth’s population is just stupid. How does this happen? Why do people allow a bad experience with someone that is from a different culture or place that they turn into an idea applying to everyone from that area or of that culture? We all need to check ourselves before making a statement that could damage our credibility. I know I am guilty of stereotyping and I think we all are. We just need to be a little more careful.</p>
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