Comments on: Confucious Says ‘Listen, Look and Learn’ http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/ The MBA Graduate Program at Cal Poly Fri, 18 May 2012 16:05:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: David Zarcone http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-3490 David Zarcone Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:40:30 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-3490 I find it extremely scary to think that suicide rates can be this high in any part of the world. Since I have been lived a rather comfortable life I feel so ignorant and blessed at the same time. The fact that in this certain farming region (Vidarbha) there is a suicide every eight hours due to their extreme debt that these people are forced to face is just depressing. The subsidized cotton in other countries forces farmers to reduce prices below their living requirements; something needs to change to improve this situation. I find it extremely scary to think that suicide rates can be this high in any part of the world. Since I have been lived a rather comfortable life I feel so ignorant and blessed at the same time. The fact that in this certain farming region (Vidarbha) there is a suicide every eight hours due to their extreme debt that these people are forced to face is just depressing. The subsidized cotton in other countries forces farmers to reduce prices below their living requirements; something needs to change to improve this situation.

]]> By: VIctoria Whelan http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1104 VIctoria Whelan Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:15:54 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1104 I find it interesting how our two cultures are so different, yet they are becoming similar to us in the business world and surpassing on us many things (technology). They also idolize a lot of our culture, like LEVI jeans and many food chains. I look forward to seeing how their culture changes as their business world grows. At one time we did not allow women to be CFO, only domesticated roles. Politics and religion have always been a hush topic in our society, but more and more people are discussing these topics as the days progress. Actors and political figures are opening up, in hopes to have our society not be scared to discuss these issues. Maybe in the future, sooner rather than later, the Chinese will adapt more to the way our society acts. I find it interesting how our two cultures are so different, yet they are becoming similar to us in the business world and surpassing on us many things (technology). They also idolize a lot of our culture, like LEVI jeans and many food chains. I look forward to seeing how their culture changes as their business world grows.

At one time we did not allow women to be CFO, only domesticated roles. Politics and religion have always been a hush topic in our society, but more and more people are discussing these topics as the days progress. Actors and political figures are opening up, in hopes to have our society not be scared to discuss these issues. Maybe in the future, sooner rather than later, the Chinese will adapt more to the way our society acts.

]]> By: Chris Carr http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1100 Chris Carr Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:27:23 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1100 Great stuff and nuances, Lonnie. Thanks for taking the time to share this info. Great stuff and nuances, Lonnie. Thanks for taking the time to share this info.

]]> By: Erik http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1099 Erik Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:19:57 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1099 Lonnie- Thanks for providing clarification. It's smart for us to be aware of cultural differences that could prove to be embarrassing for either ourselves or our hosts. I hope between now and June we have further blog discussions similar to this to continue to raise our collective awareness. I went to the Soviet Union in 1986 as part of a student group - this was still during the cold war. Our countries were very much enemies, but whenever we had the opportunity to talk to your run-of-the-mill citizen on the street, it was clear that although we came from very different backgrounds, we also had many similarities. It was a powerful experience for a 16 year old and one that has always encouraged me to find common ground with folks from different backgrounds. Thanks again for your posts to this blog. -Erik Lonnie-
Thanks for providing clarification. It’s smart for us to be aware of cultural differences that could prove to be embarrassing for either ourselves or our hosts. I hope between now and June we have further blog discussions similar to this to continue to raise our collective awareness.

I went to the Soviet Union in 1986 as part of a student group - this was still during the cold war. Our countries were very much enemies, but whenever we had the opportunity to talk to your run-of-the-mill citizen on the street, it was clear that although we came from very different backgrounds, we also had many similarities. It was a powerful experience for a 16 year old and one that has always encouraged me to find common ground with folks from different backgrounds.

Thanks again for your posts to this blog.

-Erik

]]> By: Lonnie http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1095 Lonnie Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:58:58 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1095 This is meant only to clarify, nit to be agumentative....I am certainly not the cross-legged guy on the mountain top with all the China answers.... (http://www.onemanbandwidth.com/wordpress/?p=773) 1. Many Americans (my wife included) giggle when nervous. It is a matter of degrees and our interpretation. A giggle here is usually a signal to you to back off. They do not push the limits as we are oft to do... 2. Salary and money issues are usually off-limits for Americans - I wouldn’t feel comfortable disclosing my salary to many people. The reason for this is not that is a personal issue, but more because you run the risk of embarassing someone who only makes 5% of what you do. I know Chinese people who make less than $50 USD a month. In keeping with this you should not act surprised that someone has not had an experience or used a device. They probably can't afford it. They ask each other all the time about money, but, you should not. unless you are sure it is a safe subject. Surprisingly, the poorer Chinese will be more apt to tell you... 3. Stay away from religion and politics in dialogue - I’ve got to believe this advice is global. The differnce is simple: it is often against the law and DEFINITELY against contract rules to do so if you are a foreign expert in China. They will get wide-eyed at any comments about Taiwan, religion, or Tibet and may avoid you for future discussions. 4. Americans generally enjoy talking about themselves - their holidays, customs, business. Also, Americans don’t like to be told how to think. Chinese will invariably default to easy subjects as they are no comfortable being visible. They are taught that the peg that sticks up gets beaten down. They will head for benign subjects and hope you take the heat off of them. Chinese are glad to be told what to think if it means they don't have to do so in certain situations where they could lose face. [Creativity and Innovation] 5. If you put a group of 100 American college professors together to determine how to teach a class, you’d have 100 different opinions - many of them vocalized over a powerpoint presentation. Here you would have a couple of State approved opinions ALL done on PowerPoint. I loathe PowerPoint. 6. When I was an undergrad (roughly 15-20 years ago), we did virtually NO group work. Now, undergrad students spend a bulk of their college career in groups with the desired goal of these students being cooperative, cohesive, and collaborative. Team building and forced cooperation are not the same. Dave Barry mused about the Japanese that it would be easier to get the whole of Tokyo to wear the same outfit on the same day than to get two Americans to agree on what to bring to a barbecue. Group leaders in China are generally appointed and follow party orders and rarely advocate for the group. They are an instrument of the institution rather than a guiding force. Groups rarely act as a unit themselves to effect change as we do. Many student groups wil have the same or similar personalities. 7. Other students can chime in, but how many professors have you had in your student career who have a “set” lecture with little to no deviation? My guess is that the number is too high. It is not at all uncommon to see a professor here reading aloud from a book while seated. I have seen up to half of a class sound asleep during a "lecture" and with good reason. A teacher like that at Cal Poly better have tenure...We all do canned presentations, but rarely teach only what is in the book or on a slide show. You will get to see it first-hand here, I hope. Come as a blank slate to China without trying to minimize or exaggerate differences. You will be richer for it... You guys are going to have a blast! P.S.: Um, on the DVD thing...I can point you to a couple of Video Speakeasy Joints... I know lots of people that bring them back without incident, but....Um, you could claim you were returning them because they said "Property of Touchstone Pictures" all through the flick...:-) Sorry about the horrible typing in my first answer... Lon . .. This is meant only to clarify, nit to be agumentative….I am certainly not the cross-legged guy on the mountain top with all the China answers….
(http://www.onemanbandwidth.com/wordpress/?p=773)

1. Many Americans (my wife included) giggle when nervous.

It is a matter of degrees and our interpretation. A giggle here is usually a signal to you to back off. They do not push the limits as we are oft to do…

2. Salary and money issues are usually off-limits for Americans - I wouldn’t feel comfortable disclosing my salary to many people.

The reason for this is not that is a personal issue, but more because you run the risk of embarassing someone who only makes 5% of what you do. I know Chinese people who make less than $50 USD a month. In keeping with this you should not act surprised that someone has not had an experience or used a device. They probably can’t afford it. They ask each other all the time about money, but, you should not. unless you are sure it is a safe subject. Surprisingly, the poorer Chinese will be more apt to tell you…

3. Stay away from religion and politics in dialogue - I’ve got to believe this advice is global.

The differnce is simple: it is often against the law and DEFINITELY against contract rules to do so if you are a foreign expert in China. They will get wide-eyed at any comments about Taiwan, religion, or Tibet and may avoid you for future discussions.

4. Americans generally enjoy talking about themselves - their holidays, customs, business. Also, Americans don’t like to be told how to think.

Chinese will invariably default to easy subjects as they are no comfortable being visible. They are taught that the peg that sticks up gets beaten down. They will head for benign subjects and hope you take the heat off of them. Chinese are glad to be told what to think if it means they don’t have to do so in certain situations where they could lose face.

[Creativity and Innovation]

5. If you put a group of 100 American college professors together to determine how to teach a class, you’d have 100 different opinions - many of them vocalized over a powerpoint presentation.

Here you would have a couple of State approved opinions ALL done on PowerPoint. I loathe PowerPoint.

6. When I was an undergrad (roughly 15-20 years ago), we did virtually NO group work. Now, undergrad students spend a bulk of their college career in groups with the desired goal of these students being cooperative, cohesive, and collaborative.

Team building and forced cooperation are not the same. Dave Barry mused about the Japanese that it would be easier to get the whole of Tokyo to wear the same outfit on the same day than to get two Americans to agree on what to bring to a barbecue. Group leaders in China are generally appointed and follow party orders and rarely advocate for the group. They are an instrument of the institution rather than a guiding force. Groups rarely act as a unit themselves to effect change as we do. Many student groups wil have the same or similar personalities.

7. Other students can chime in, but how many professors have you had in your student career who have a “set” lecture with little to no deviation? My guess is that the number is too high.

It is not at all uncommon to see a professor here reading aloud from a book while seated. I have seen up to half of a class sound asleep during a “lecture” and with good reason. A teacher like that at Cal Poly better have tenure…We all do canned presentations, but rarely teach only what is in the book or on a slide show.

You will get to see it first-hand here, I hope. Come as a blank slate to China without trying to minimize or exaggerate differences. You will be richer for it…

You guys are going to have a blast!

P.S.:

Um, on the DVD thing…I can point you to a couple of Video Speakeasy Joints…
I know lots of people that bring them back without incident, but….Um, you could claim you were returning them because they said “Property of Touchstone Pictures” all through the flick…:-)

Sorry about the horrible typing in my first answer…

Lon

.

..

]]> By: Lonnie http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1081 Lonnie Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:37:11 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1081 Hi all...I just dropped in for a second, but will answer your questions toonight... One the face of it, yes, the similarities are many, but I will detail the nuances. Sometimes I dabble in a bit of subjective shorthand because I am TOO familiar with the subjecta AND to keep the censors off my blog... Thanks Chris! Lon Hi all…I just dropped in for a second, but will answer your questions toonight…

One the face of it, yes, the similarities are many, but I will detail the nuances. Sometimes I dabble in a bit of subjective shorthand because I am TOO familiar with the subjecta AND to keep the censors off my blog…

Thanks Chris!

Lon

]]> By: Erik http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1075 Erik Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:04:12 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1075 In reading these excerpts I kept being struck with the idea that while there are numerous differences, there are also many similarities between our cultures/societies. By no means am I trying to discount what Lonnie has written - he clearly has the experience and background to make these assertions, but let me compile a list of similarities using his list of differences as a base: [General Musings] 1. Many Americans (my wife included) giggle when nervous. 2. Salary and money issues are usually off-limits for Americans - I wouldn't feel comfortable disclosing my salary to many people. 3. Stay away from religion and politics in dialogue - I've got to believe this advice is global. 4. Americans generally enjoy talking about themselves - their holidays, customs, business. Also, Americans don't like to be told how to think. [Creativity and Innovation] 5. If you put a group of 100 American college professors together to determine how to teach a class, you'd have 100 different opinions - many of them vocalized over a powerpoint presentation. 6. When I was an undergrad (roughly 15-20 years ago), we did virtually NO group work. Now, undergrad students spend a bulk of their college career in groups with the desired goal of these students being cooperative, cohesive, and collaborative. 7. Other students can chime in, but how many professors have you had in your student career who have a "set" lecture with little to no deviation? My guess is that the number is too high. In reading these excerpts I kept being struck with the idea that while there are numerous differences, there are also many similarities between our cultures/societies. By no means am I trying to discount what Lonnie has written - he clearly has the experience and background to make these assertions, but let me compile a list of similarities using his list of differences as a base:

[General Musings]
1. Many Americans (my wife included) giggle when nervous.

2. Salary and money issues are usually off-limits for Americans - I wouldn’t feel comfortable disclosing my salary to many people.

3. Stay away from religion and politics in dialogue - I’ve got to believe this advice is global.

4. Americans generally enjoy talking about themselves - their holidays, customs, business. Also, Americans don’t like to be told how to think.

[Creativity and Innovation]

5. If you put a group of 100 American college professors together to determine how to teach a class, you’d have 100 different opinions - many of them vocalized over a powerpoint presentation.

6. When I was an undergrad (roughly 15-20 years ago), we did virtually NO group work. Now, undergrad students spend a bulk of their college career in groups with the desired goal of these students being cooperative, cohesive, and collaborative.

7. Other students can chime in, but how many professors have you had in your student career who have a “set” lecture with little to no deviation? My guess is that the number is too high.

]]> By: Chris Carr http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1073 Chris Carr Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:06:50 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1073 Let's discuss Felipe's first question in one of our Spring predeparture sessions. In the meantime, Lonnie, your thoughts? Let’s discuss Felipe’s first question in one of our Spring predeparture sessions.

In the meantime, Lonnie, your thoughts?

]]> By: Felipe Hernandez http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1072 Felipe Hernandez Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:00:17 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/confucious-says-understand-each-other-ii/#comment-1072 Speaking of Lonnie, I was just reading One Man Bandwith and I don't think I've laughed so hard in months. The post about the Star Wars english translation is hysterical - "I was just made by the Presbytarian Church." I would love to bring one of these things back for the humor and souvenir value, but he mentions that a friend was fined $2000 for trying to bring a DVD into Australia. Is it common to get caught for such an offense and are the fines always as severe? Also, it sounds as if these translations are loaded with anti-west propaganda i.e. - the westerners are associated as the bad guys. Is that to appease the government or is that simply how the Chinese citizens/filmmakers view things? Anyway, great stuff - One Man Bandwith is now in my bookmarks. Speaking of Lonnie, I was just reading One Man Bandwith and I don’t think I’ve laughed so hard in months. The post about the Star Wars english translation is hysterical - “I was just made by the Presbytarian Church.”

I would love to bring one of these things back for the humor and souvenir value, but he mentions that a friend was fined $2000 for trying to bring a DVD into Australia. Is it common to get caught for such an offense and are the fines always as severe?

Also, it sounds as if these translations are loaded with anti-west propaganda i.e. - the westerners are associated as the bad guys. Is that to appease the government or is that simply how the Chinese citizens/filmmakers view things?

Anyway, great stuff - One Man Bandwith is now in my bookmarks.

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