Greetings From China!
March 21st, 2007
I make this post from the airport in Shanghai. I have been moving at light speed from firm to firm and from city to city. All is coming along very nicely, and even better than I had hoped.
I think if you come into this trip and part of the world with an open mind, throw out preconceived notions and biases, and let yourself go, we have put together a business trip, course and experience for you that will allow you to return to the US a different and better person.
More information and details to follow early spring quarter, after I return and work on finalizing the details. Gotta run. They just called for boarding. Cheers! - Professor Carr
Entry Filed under: Pre-Departure, China
18 Comments Add your own
1. China Law Blog | March 22nd, 2007 at 6:45 am
Have a great trip!
2. Chuck Rylant | March 22nd, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Looking forward to it!
3. Katie Hofman | March 23rd, 2007 at 3:42 pm
What a good point you make about approaching this trip with an open mind. While that is difficult seeing as everyone has preconceived expectations and judgements, I think that the more I’m reading and learning about China, the more excited I am about this trip and soaking in as much as I can. I hope that all of our expectations and judgements are flipped on their heads, because that is what will make this trip memorable and beneficial!
4. Fatih Sunor | March 23rd, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Professor Carr, I hope you are enjoying your trip. Before I travel to somewhere, I read about the place and talk to other people who has been there before. But another thing I do different from most of the people is to listen to the music composed in that place. Before I came to California I had listened to bands like Eagles, Beach Boys and Red Hot Chili Peppers. To prepare myself for the China trip, recently, I am researching Chinese music and found couple of interesting things about it. The historical records show that music has been important for Chinese people since 1122 BC with Zhou Dynasty, Today we can still listen to some music from that period composed by Imperial Music Bureau. Chinese music has been mostly dominated by Asian musics in history. In the following link you may listen to some sample music from different periods including contemporary ones. I loved it!
http://music.ibiblio.org/pub/multimedia/chinese-music/
5. Lonnie | March 27th, 2007 at 2:50 am
Faith,
Thanks for the resource!
6. nanheyangrouchuan | March 27th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Go live there for a few years and all of you will be regulars on sinocidal.com instead of waving the flag and singing the songs.
7. Chris Carr | March 28th, 2007 at 5:43 am
Ah nanheyangrouchuan … the ever present optimist.
In any blog post you have made in the blogosphere have you ever offered a reasonable and practical solution to a complex problem faced by government, society, person, or business, rather than a sideline shot and criticism? If so, I have yet to see it.
Because China and so much there seems to make you upset, I find it ironic that you spend so much time on China related blogs. Maybe blogs on Bolivia or Antartica will bring you more happiness and lower your blood pressure — you might consider checking those out!
I am also curious about something. You appear to have deep inside knowledge of China that the rest of us can only admire from afar. This in turn made me wonder where such insight could have been gained. Have you ever worked for or done work for the US government in China in any capacity? Could you be so kind as to confirm, either way?
By the way, I still await your confirmation on what you charge clients, your margins, and whether your clients feel your profit is fair and reasonable. Two or three times I have asked you for this information, and you have yet to provide a response!!
Have a GREAT day!
8. nanheyangrouchuan | March 28th, 2007 at 8:46 am
Yes, I have lived and worked in China for a couple of years, and not at an expat salary. I actually spent most of my time listening and asking questions instead of spouting off my knowledge regarding “what I learned in school” or bringing up some historical stuff that contemporary chinese could really care less about (the only response you’ll get is “yes, China has the long history!…then they’ll stick their nose in the air and smile for half a minute before returning to reality).
BTW, my “client” is the US gov’t in a capacity I won’t go into and of course I won’t reveal my main employer either.
My best piece of advice for all of your students is to go to China for one year. Take a part time english teaching job at a university to get the Z visa and your foot in the door, then find a small company to work for (even a bar, magazine, restaurant or whatever). If their chinese is good enough, definitely work for a chinese company. And most importantly, try to get by on slightly above a local salary, somewhere 7-8000 RMB a month should do. That’ll be enough for economical travel, trips to the bars, McDs and the psychologically necessary western food sunday brunches at 5 star hotels (provided they live in BJ, SH, Shenzhen, Hangzhou, Suzhou or Nanjing).
Grizzled expats have absolutely no interest regarding what they learned in school about China and will scoff/laugh if they tell them that they watched CCTV 9 in the US.
9. Chris Carr | March 28th, 2007 at 11:28 am
nanheyangrouchuan,
Why do you seem to be so down on what people can and do learn in school?
The China expats I know and respect are all well educated people who highly value their education and that experience, what they learned during their undergrad and grad school years, they view it is one (not the only) step in their life long process of learning, they also view it as an important part of their success in China, etc. I.e., they have been in China much longer than you (and me!), they routinely listen to what other people have to say on a topic and they don’t (never?) profess to know all the answers to China and/or scoff at others or their experience. But, perhaps you are smarter and more successful than these folks; if so, I look forward to reading your blog and/or book.
I don’t agree that the best way for an MBA student to experience China is to go there and teach English.
Also, do you really believe that those of us who teach at the university level have no connection to reality or the real world and/or have never experienced it? Give me a break! Please step into a Cal Poly classroom and observe before making such a suggestion.
BTW, I remain curious about your background … have you ever worked for or at a US Consulate in China or the US Embassy in China?
10. Chris Carr | March 28th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Fatih,
Great idea! Thanks for the link.
11. nanheyangrouchuan | March 28th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
“I don’t agree that the best way for an MBA student to experience China is to go there and teach English.”
Chris, experience and those expats should have taught you that the best way to get into China is to get a Z visa by getting a teaching job, then leave the teaching job as soon as you find another company to assume your Z visa. Sheesh!
The more time expats spend out of China, the more agreeable they are. The ones who have been there for 4+ years and rarely leave are well, you know what I’ll say.
You can pooh pooh me with your experiences, but just ask some Chinese who are long term residents of the US. They’ll all tell you that western business people who spend enough time in China end up being the worst of both cultures. They can abandon their western morality and need to obey the law and the same time clumsily try to adapt to chinese business customs like “guan xi”.
A note to your students, no foreigner can ever have real “guan xi” with a chinese person. Relations with in-laws can have plenty of problems as well.
12. Chris Carr | March 28th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
“Experience and those expats should have taught you that the best way to get into China is to get a Z visa by getting a teaching job, then leave the teaching job as soon as you find another company to assume your Z visa. Sheesh!”
Was this your strategy? Wait a minute — aren’t you the guy that lectures business and business people on their lack of ethics and morality?
Unbelievable.
nanheyangrouchuan, you never cease to amaze me …
And I am still waiting for the US Embassy/Consulate confirmation.
13. nanheyangrouchuan | March 28th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Trying to use my words against me, eh? Weak. The intent is not to trick the authorities, the Z visa is legitimate as long as it has not expired. I filled out my teaching contract, most teachers do, but you look for other things, often working part time until your contract is over, then your new employer picks it up. I thought you knew about business in China.
I never said I worked in a consulate, I told you what I did, you have to use your imagination to interpret my meaning.
14. Chris Carr | March 28th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Did you disclose to the folks on the other end of your teaching contract when they hired you and/or you interviewed with them that you were using them (and the Z visa) for easy entry into the country with the hidden intention of jumping ship as soon as you could once you were there and working for them?
Guy, If I have to lay out and spot such ethical issues for you, it highlights how you are in no position to lecture any government or business on the topic. Glad you are not teaching my kid!
And if you dislike China so much, why are you living there?
Your blog posts are full of contradictions. Oh, but your rules, values and standards only apply to OTHER people, right?
BTW, why don’t you use your real name for blog comments, rather than a handle you can hide behind? This speaks volumes.
We will again have to agree to disagree. I have already killed too much time dealing with your negativity.
I hope you find happiness in life in a way that does not rely so much on bashing people, firms, businesses and governments while simultaneously failing to offer a practical solution that you would own, publicly stand behind (with your real name) and one that can also actually be executed to completion.
Best of luck!
15. nanheyangrouchuan | March 28th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
“Did you disclose to the folks on the other end of your teaching contract when they hired you and/or you interviewed with them that you were using them (and the Z visa) for easy entry into the country with the hidden intention of jumping ship as soon as you could once you were there and working for them?”
Oh please, that doesn’t happen here either. You are starting to sound like the business professor from “Back to School”.
I filled my end, they filled theirs, the deal was done.
BTW were you a lawyer in a past profession?
16. nanheyangrouchuan | March 28th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
And yes, I will continue to lecture the Neville Chamberlains of the world regarding China, especially since this country has not one Tiananmen Square on its hands but two.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gulja+massacre&btnG=Google+Search
17. 麻木 | April 9th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Ya know, kebab boy…you’ve got stones. Let these optimistic MBA folks get over here and think they’re gonna have a bang-up, swell old time. No harm in that.
A guy blew a snot rocket on me today.
That pretty much says it all…
Chamberlain, indeed…
http://www.sinocidal.com
18. Chris Carr | April 10th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
麻木,
Thanks for sharing this deep insight. We could not possibly have figured this out ourselves. I will sleep well tonight. Our trip is sure to be a success now.
Leave a Comment
Some HTML allowed:
<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>
Subscribe to the comments via RSS Feed