The Three Types Of Westerners in China
December 10th, 2007
An interesting podcast here by Christine Lu of the Chinese Business Network with Greg Bissky of Treasure Mountain Consulting, The Three Types of Westerners in China.
A very good podcast. Self-explanatory. Check it out.
Which type of Westerner are you now, which do you think you will be in China, and which one do you think you will be when you return home? Be honest in your self assessment. I am not asking you to engage in wishful thinking, but realistic and honest thinking and self-assessment.
You can also pick up some good pointers for your future business career (e.g., what types of things should you be aware of as you manage, motivate and lead Chinese employees in your organization) and trips to Asia from this CBN podcast, The Role of Face in Chinese Business Culture.
Entry Filed under: Pre-Departure, China
34 Comments Add your own
1. Thalia van Tonder | December 25th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
I think a person shows many faces when living and working in China. The notion of “Keeping Face” is extremely important.
I have been living in Shanghai for five months and everyday life can be challenging. Doing the simplist things here can be tough.
Mr. Ugly is mentioned above. Sometimes American’s get this feeling of being “untouchable” here. It is true, animosity grows as you try to adapt to the culture. There is not an equal standard of “importance” of certain taskes. Many Westerner’s including myself struggle with negotiation even on the most mundane things such as buying oranges on the street. There is a dual pricing system. Westerner’s know this and this brings out Mr. Ugly real quick.
2. Chris Carr | December 26th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Thalia,
Thanks for checking in. Good points.
3. Morgan O'Hara | December 16th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
It’s always good to take a step back and reflect on who you think you are, who you really are, and who you want to be. Abroad, this reflective process is magnified – especially in very foreign lands like China. Perceptions are so distorted. Often times you can run up against a brick wall, unaware of what’s really going on. This podcast inspired me to take a step back and evaluate myself – what sort of Westerner would I be if I worked in China? I’m sure at times I would be bad, ugly, inconsistent, naïve, romantic, and – hopefully – good. You can’t help but slip up and make mistakes. Greg Bissky’s words of wisdom are so valuable; not only do they help the Westerner identify lapses in comportment, but they also facilitate the conversion to “sophisticated.” If I were to live in China, I would listen to this podcast every so often, just to make sure I wasn’t veering off track and misinterpreting things.
Bissky’s interview also reminded me of Lonnie Hodge’s sage advice for those of us who may one day work in China. For the first six months, just shut up, Lonnie said. He admitted that his biggest mistake was raising a storm when he first arrived in China. He identified inefficiencies at the University where he worked and wanted to immediately correct them. But it’s as Bisky says – first view things through Chinese glasses. Or as Coget says – be curious about others. Only once you’ve framed some common ground is the foundation stable enough to affect positive change. It’s a game of give and take.
4. Andrea Muntzel | December 16th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
As much as I would like to say I embody the qualities of The Good Westerner, I think that would be wishful thinking at my level of knowledge, experience, and understanding of the Chinese. However, I don’t think I’m much like The Ugly Westerner either. I’m just not assertive or confident enough to think I could change an entire culture that is much older than mine. That leaves me somewhere in the middle. My first inclination was towards The Romantic Westerner. I do kind of feel like I could never completely understand the Chinese. People claim that they have but I think those people have actually become ‘Chinese’ by living, working, and building families in China. Besides, most people don’t completely understand themselves; how could you expect a person to completely understand somebody else?
Like I said before, I am a Romantic-Bad Westerner. For some reason, I have a glorified vision of the Chinese that might incline me to give them what they wanted in business. Added to that is my trusting nature, which assumes that people will return the favors you give them because I would return the favors if the situation were reversed. I don’t think I would ever be a Naïve Westerner, but I could see myself becoming an Inconsistent Westerner before I become a Good Westerner. Even Greg Bissky admitted that he’s made a lot of mistakes in dealing with the Chinese. He’s had over 20 years of experience with Chinese culture. I think it will take me more than a year to get a good grasp on China but I plan on continuing my learning after the program and I aspire to be a Good Westerner, whether that happens by the time I come back home from China or long after.
5. Jason Larocco | December 27th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Greg Bissky had some great insight. The three points that I took away from his interview was to study and understand the why of Chinese business culture not just the what, be authentic in your approach and application of your knowledge, and lastly take the time to observe the company culture and behavior prior to implementing any changes. Bissky made it clear that if you think that by reading books and watching documentaries you will know all of the ins and outs of a culture you are making a huge mistake. The things that truly make a society tick (the whys) often times cannot be captured or are generalized for simplicity in a book or film. We learned in organizational behavior that whether domestically or internationally making an effort to understand somebody else’s point of view (i.e. their world view) will help lower defensive behaviors and increase effective communication. Studying the Chinese and Indian culture is critical to our understanding of their world view, but it in no way makes us experts on who they are or what motivates them as individuals. People are people know matter where you go, and there is no book that can make us an expert on individual people. Bottom line studying up on China and India will make us more receptive to their customs, but it still takes time and effort to understand people. Lonnie Hodge gave us more or less the same recommendation during his presentation to the GSBA. Lonnie felt that if there was one thing that he could do differently about starting his relationships overseas it would be to shut up and just observe company culture and behavior for six months prior to implementing change.
6. Jimmy Spann | January 8th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
I believe that I am fit into his Bad-Romantic classification. I will probably give into everything because I just do not know everything about their culture. Since I will be there in their country. I have been learning through these blogs, pre departure meetings, my own research, and talking to others who have already been to China. But I do think that I will be trying to hard not to offend my host and would probably give into everything that they are telling me. Also, right now I do not know everything there is to know about business and I do like to work collaboratively with other. And taking others ideas and building upon them to make it better.
Realistically I would like to be a Good or Sophisticated person at the end of our trip. I do not think that it is unrealistic goal for myself. But I do think that realistically it will take a lot of work on my part to get there. I think that it would be hard for any of us to expect to be at this Good-sophisticated level before we embark on our trip.
I think that it doesn’t matter which group we fall into as long as we improve upon our knowledge and skills while we are over there. We just need to have an open mind and be willing to learn. Keep in mind that you “cannot change which glasses everyone else looks through, but you can change the glasses that you yourself look through” according to Gregg Bissky.
7. Oscar Merlin | January 10th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Out of all of three I would probably had been the bad romantic westerner. I would have probably tried to please everyone that I met with and hopefully have that benefit me some time in the future. But like Greg was saying, you cannot forget why you are in China. You are there to make a profit, and indeed, if I see that I am not making progress then I have to start thinking in ways of changing my behavior in order to get results.
I guess the best scenario if you are going to be doing business in another country would be if you look the natives there and speak the language, even though you might have been born and lived all of your life in the US. If you have the advantage of blending in into that place then it should be easy sailing.
8. Nick Chamness | January 13th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
After being in the country for so long you are bound pick up on the behaviors of you fellow countrymen. It is pretty sad that there are these three so called groups. Unfortunately these negative types of American attitudes are not limited to people doing business in China. The “ugly” American can be found in any foreign country and continues to make America look pompous and unappreciative. The “my way is the best way” attitude is one that we have to shake. People have to accept the fact that there are other ways of doing things in this world.
I have seen first hand accounts of these types of people and have called them on it, much like Greg talked about in the podcast. These types of experiences are proof that Americans need to engage in more research before visiting and doing business in another country.
9. David McKinnon | January 15th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Yeah, I’ll be honest and say that I fit the description of Bissky’s definition of an “Ugly American”, meaning I often believe my way is the right way. Usually when you hear the term “Ugly American” you think of someone who is loud, embarrassing and disrespectful. I definitely do NOT act that way. I just have the tendency to believe that my way is the right way. I think everyone has a little of that in them. At the same time I think there isn’t much that separates what he calls a “Good American” and an “Ugly American.” He said that a “Good American” respects Chinese culture, adapts, but changes only key things. I understand it to mean that they believe their way is the right way, except in cases where they need to use the Chinese way to get things done. Do what you believe is right, but be open minded enough to change and adapt. Most of the things he talked about are solid management and social principles no matter what country you are in.
10. Jenna Healy | January 17th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
The good, the bad and the ugly. The wrong glasses on both sides are being worn… you are responsible for all the mistakes you make with your glasses. This is all very interesting.
How much does our intention conflict with the Chinese classification of good, bad or ugly? Learning Chinese customs and language seem to be the ticket to making the impression you intend to. If you are well informed, you can give off the vibe you intend to.
Again, talk of the ego of Westerners… how we expect China to conform on their soil and ours. Bad Westerner! The sophisticated Westerner seems to understand and respect the tools in the sandbox. Tactfully, they pick their battles. This seems like a good goal for all of us, right?
Could we respectfully classify the Chinese businessmen and women as the good, the bad and the ugly? And what would those characteristics be?
11. Eric White | January 19th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
Hmm.. right now I’d have to say that I’m a bad American: the one who thinks business is business and it should be the same in China as it is here in the U.S.
Trying to break the habits that have been rewarded with success here in the U.S. but do not work in China will be very difficult. Though I recognize (now) the Chinese have a different way of doing business, I am still struggling to change my mentality especially without knowing/experiencing the differences!
I think preparation makes all the difference. I know all of us are trying very hard to pick up everything about Chinese culture before we make the trip to try to minimize our ‘ugly American’ ways, but habits die hard. Hopefully after all the prep work is complete we will know the reasons behind Chinese business practices and be able to work with them instead of around them.
12. Patrick Johansing | January 23rd, 2009 at 11:02 am
In general, I try to avoid being called ugly. JF’s class kept coming to mind when I was listening to that podcast. I remember him saying that you only say what people think you said. He emphasized that you need to understand a person’s background and culture if you plan on getting your point across. If I ever do business abroad, I will remember what he said and try to act by it. I don’t know enough about China or India to be a ‘good’ American. If I were to do business over there right now, I would make sure not to be an ugly American, but I think I’d be a bad one, if only because I don’t understand their culture.
13. james McMillan | January 31st, 2009 at 3:47 pm
I’d like to think I’m not the ugly American but I’m sure in some situations I am. I think most people in this class would agree that depending on the day and the scenario that they could be any one of the three. Doing business and/or living abroad would definitely expose which one you are more often than not very quickly. Adapting to change is always hard for anyone but it’s how we handle the change and whether on not we accept it determines how successful one becomes in a new environment.
14. Mark Polydoris | February 4th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
You know, I haven’t been called “Mr. Sophisticated” since college….
I really liked this podcast. I think Bissky really speaks to the complexity of a foreign nation….a REALLY foreign nation. This isn’t like going to Mexico and having a Corona, and saying “Gracias.” Not only is China going to be ‘foreign’ to us, but I suspect that simply the way things are done will be very foreign to us.
I completely agree with Morgan that this type of experience which is coming up will cause a lot of us to do a lot of reflection, a lot of which should probably be done before the trip. Even though I’ve always wanted to be called “Mr. Sophisticated” (it WOULD be a sweet nickname), I think I honestly fall somewhere in the “Mr. Bad Inconsistent” or “Mr. Bad Naive.” I think I’m experienced enough at this point not to be “Mr. Ugly,” but I do think that China, despite all of our studying and preparing, will still be a shock to me. If people like Lonnie Hodge and Greg Bissky are telling us to keep our mouths shut for AT LEAST six months, I don’t think we’ll be able to ‘get it’ in about a week. Keeping your mouth shut is generally universal advice…
Signed,
Mr. Sophisticated
15. Justin Miller | February 14th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
I really like this podcast. It was straightforward, had some good stories to support the opinions, and was definitely relevant to our trip. I’m actually humbled by what was said, because as much as I would like to not be a Mr. Bad Naive or a Mr. Bad Romantic, I think the only way for me to do that would be to spend a long time in China. While I’m not ignorant enough to think that the western culture is better, I do not have the experience needed to really understand their culture. It’s one thing to read about it in a book or hear someone else talk about, but the best way to learn is to actually experience it.
The best thing about our trip is that even though we wont be there for that long, we will get to see what the culture is like first hand. Additionally, the more trips you take there, the better you will understand the culture. It will be easier going there the second time.
16. Raquel Rusing | February 15th, 2009 at 10:50 am
“Only you control the glasses you wear… you are responsible for all of your mistakes.” -Greg Bissky
I think this is my main pitfall. I hate to admit that I’m wrong. I want to be good at everything and often feel so much shame in my mistakes that I don’t want to admit them aloud. Mr. Bissky put this into some more perspective for me because in China, I am going to be perceived only in the way that I project myself. The glasses that I put on are the glasses that I chose to put on and any mistake I make cannot be pushed onto an irreconcilable cultural difference, but I have to admit that I made a mistake and put in effort to remedy that mistake.
I think that the K.I.S.S. strategy is also going to hang me up. I’m a mathematician, things need to be efficient, precise and logical. I hate small talk. I think it breeds a false sense of care when often the care doesn’t exist. However, I don’t want to appear rude or ignorant to the Chinese, so I need to seriously start practicing casual chit-chat.
Based on these two major mistakes that I see myself engaging in while overseas, I’d say that I am a Ms. Inconsistent. I’m definitely not naive because I haven’t gone out of my way to emerge myself in the culture completely and feel like I am an expert. I admit that I really know nothing. And I’m scared of that feeling. I’m not a Ms. Ugly because I truly want to respect the differences in all people. I’m not Ms. Good because I have no experience and I’m not that patient or mature yet. This is why I think I’m a Ms. Bad. I’m learning the How-To through these blogs, meetings, books, etc., but I’m not really taking in the why and I think this is because the why will occur while I’m there… and obviously not to the full-extent, like Mark pointed out. It’s going to take months for me to observe and absorb the true foreign culture and country of China.
17. Amy Cook | February 15th, 2009 at 11:42 am
It wasn’t difficult for me to decide which kind of Westerner I would be. As much as I would like to be a “Good Westerner”, I think that comes only with conducting years of business in China. I believe I would be “Miss Bad Inconsistent” because were I to do business in the East, I would certainly be willing to read extensively about the culture and make efforts to conform to their way of doing business, but I doubt I would always get it right. It’s easy to read a book of tips on how to do business in China, but to completely change your western thoughts on doing business, (especially after earning an MBA in this country) would be extremely difficult and I don’t know that I would be able to consistently do it when it got harder.
My favorite part of the pod cast was when Bissky suggested that you throw out the Western “rules of business” when dealing with the Chinese and think more about the “rules of marriage” or the “rules of friendship”. I think that’s a pretty solid piece of advice that Westerners should be able to grasp and follow. It may feel unnatural to do this in a business setting, but as Bissky also mentioned, you are there to make money, not to change the Chinese way of doing things. So if “doing it their way” leads to success, you better strive toward being a “Good Westerner” or risk making some very expensive mistakes.
18. Andre Ourthiague | February 18th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
I am an inconsistent bad westerner. I have aspects of all three types, but the variation in my behavior fits where I am right now. The podcast describes the inconsistent westerner as purposely avoiding customs and difficult interactions. I am not the type of person to purposely avoid the Chinese way, but I have so many gaps in my understanding that I know I will be inconsistent in my behavior. The description of the inconsistent westerner describes a person who has studied HOW to behave in China, but does not apply what they know due mostly to ignorance regarding the WHY. This fits where I currently am, and where I will be while in China.
19. Michael Mossman | February 22nd, 2009 at 11:16 pm
I would not say I am the ugly westerner; I probably more like the bad romantic. I do not look down on the Chinese culture and way of business, nor do I expect them to change for me. The Chinese way is ingrained into their daily life and culture just like the western way is ingrained into my daily life and culture. In order for me to become a good westerner, it is important to not expect others to change. It is important for any westerner to gain a better understanding of the Chinese way of business, which will allow them to adjust to their practices and culture. Like others have said, it seems like it takes years of building relationships to really become a good westerner.
Greg Bissky had some great points on Western and Chinese business culture. I found his point on Chinese business relationships being like a marriage well taken. Friendships and business relationships are much more important in the Chinese business culture than the western business culture. I like Greg’s choice of words by calling the Chinese way similar to a marriage because it is really almost like a marriage. I have heard the saying “its just business, get over it” in America a lot, especially when there is a dispute between business people. This attitude and statement would most likely be the end of a Chinese business relationship.
20. Scotty Hayes | March 2nd, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Inconsistent bad Westerner. I simply do not know enough about the Chinese ways of doing business. I probably would continually give in to the Chinese, thinking I would get something in return. I am no where near knowledgable enough of the Chinese culture, but that’s why we are doing these blogs and all of the other requirements for this class, before we go on our trip. All of this work is extremely beneficial, however I believe it would take years and years for a Westerner to continually conduct successfull business in the East. One of the most important take aways from the podcast I thought, was to approach business in the East as you would a marriage or a friendship.
21. Matthew Neal | March 5th, 2009 at 12:04 am
I would likely classify myself as an inconsistent westerner. I would make this designation due to my curiosity with the culture and my interest in how things are done in the different cultures of China, India, and throughout the world. I am genuinely seeking to learn and understand more about the cultures at this point. Thanks to this research, books, and blogs, I am slowly gaining a little understanding of the cultural differences and expectations. This is not to say though that I have never been a stereotypical bad American.
I know that I have caught myself sometimes becoming a bad westerner. Not necessarily with the Chinese specifically, but I know there have been times in the past thinking about another culture and being naive enough to think, “that’s stupid, the US way of doing XXXXX is much better”. I’ll have to admit this happens more than I would like, due to my western arrogance. I enjoy experiences such as this because they are definitely humbling and show that there is never one true or perfect way to get something done. Of course the goal of mine, and I’m sure everyone’s on this trip, is to attain the status of being a “good American” no matter where we travel or who we do business with.
22. Josh Hickman | March 5th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
This is exactly one of the issues that we discuss in the International Human Resources Management class with Collette Frayne, how to manage people in global markets. Everyone and ever culture has their own way of doing business, and I agree with Mr. Bissky that if you can’t recognize that and continue to think that business can only be done in your way, then you may not be fit to do business abroad. Whether it be negotiations, manufacturing, selling, or technology related, each culture will have its own norms that any business person should research and understand very well before going into a country. Being able to adjust your own practice or business processes is essential when doing business abroad.
It was interesting when he spoke about the differences between westerners and Chinese regarding email messages. That he will always be right to the point when sending something to an American and he will always talk about the relationship first in an email to Chinese. This shows why guanxi is so important to understand because it requires people to have a relationship more than business which shows respect and friendliness towards others. I wonder what the U.S. would be like if we took more of this approach in our communication…
As for myself, I would like to see myself as a sophisticated westerner, but I think that is just my ideal self. I think I adapt pretty quickly to new situations and am open minded when looking at new ways of doing things, but who knows how I will really be since I have not had hard experience on the matter. We shall see.
23. Jamie Hastings | March 5th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
I too would like to think as myself as the good westerner, but I know that simply is not the case. From the descriptions given, I will undoubtedly be the inconsistent bad westerner. I am just not knowledgeable about their culture and will unintentionally assume the qualities that go hand in hand with the inconstant person. While I think a lot of what we have been doing will aid us in getting a feel for their culture, it is only a taste as is our rip to China. It is just the tip of the iceberg. It takes time to become the “Good” westerner.
24. Jessica Harris | March 5th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
I am grateful for this opportunity to step back and evaluate who I think I am as a person. I will be honest and say that right now I am probably most like a Romanic-Bad Westerner. Why? Because I have been brought up around the idea that what goes around comes around. If I am good to the Easterners that I am doing business with I assume that eventually they will return the favor. Apparently, as I have learned from listening to this podcast, that is not the case.
It is such a great experience to be able to look at all the different types of westerners because it gives you the opportunity to steer clear of all the types that you don’t want to be. Now that I have identified what I think I am, I will be able to make changes in order to become what I want to be. Obviously this is not something that can be done overnight, but by being aware of it I can now start taking baby steps towards reaching that goal. I assume that if I ever do business with China, I will be all of the different Westerners as times and make many mistakes, but I know this trip is going to put me ahead of a great deal of people!
25. David Caldwell | March 6th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
As things stand now, I’m probably one of the romantics; I tend to think of myself as pretty idealistic, so I could see how I might expect something in return from my habits of giving. How realistic this is…? By the time I return from Asia, I hope that I am more like mr. sophisticated - that I’m there to get business done and to make money, not to change the Chinese. I think that this trip will help me not to be overwhelmed when I come to a new region, and instead to remember to be results oriented in any situation I’m dropped in to.
As a side note, I really appreciate how Greg admitted that he had been each of these people, good, bad, and ugly. It makes the prospect of change seem much more attainable.
26. Ashley Breneman | March 9th, 2009 at 12:43 am
I think at the beginning of the trip this summer, I will definitely fit into the category of the bad-inconsistent westerner. It seems very easy for all of us to read the facts, and try to “learn” how we should interact with the Chinese. Based on the fact that we all come from a school that is based on the motto “Learn by doing”, I have a feeling there will probably be a lot of little mistakes along the way. I want to go into this experience very humble and open to learning about the Chinese culture.
In one of Professor Peach’s negotiations, we were to simulate a negotiation between Americans and the Chinese. We were told how to act and expected to play our roles as best as our ability. I was playing the role of a Westerner, and had no idea what I was about to encounter. The entire exercise left a very big impression on me about assumptions. While I was sitting there wondering how I was going to come up with a good statement to get the negotiation going, I had no idea that the basic formalities of a negotiation such as hand shakes, eye contact, and business cards was going to be such a huge difference. It caught me off guard, but I also realized that my way is not always the right way. In any situation, it is critical to try and make the other person or group of people as comfortable as possible by trying to adapt.
With that being said, there are many techniques that we have learned up to this point including how to address the Chinese and how we should always come to meetings bearing gifts. I do not expect to be the perfect Westerner right away, I just hope that my mistakes are forgiven by the Chinese and I hope to leave China as a “good” westerner.
27. Victoria Rodriguez | March 9th, 2009 at 8:59 am
Similar to another approach where generalizations do not work in most cases. People are full of variations that create an almost infinite number of outcomes.
For me, I could see myself being the Bad (romantic and inconsistent) and the Good. I do sometimes romanticize cultures and definitely can be inconsistent. I could see myself giving so much that I could eventually get upset that it is not reciprocated - something I am currently working on. Also, I am inconsistent especially while I am learning a new culture/environment.
Overall, the MBA courses have enlightened me a bit in being aware of business relationships and how they differ in various environments. In some ways, I have been the good westerner (sophisticated) - where I respect cultures and adapt and insist on a few things. Although, the trip will be my first real immersion in a culture, so I get bet that I will be inconsistent. By the end, I hope that the trip and the remaining courses will help me grow more so into this good westerner.
28. Cece Reyes | March 14th, 2009 at 9:56 am
If I were doing business in China, I would be conscientious about trying to understand the culture and not assuming that they can adapt to my business culture. While I may be viewed as a bad westerner, my intentions would be to become a good westerner. However good your intentions, it is sometimes difficult to adapt to another culture and you may not realize that something you have said or done is actually offensive. Taking time to understand a culture is critical.
It seems reasonable to believe that few people who do business in China start out as the good westerner. I would imagine that most start out as the bad westerner and then depending on their ability or willingness to acclimate to the culture, they evolve into the ugly or good westerner.
29. Mark Wegemer | March 14th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
I think it’s interesting about the westerners thinking that their way is the best way because it is true in all aspects of American life. Everyone wants to be the correct one and it’s hard for people to take constructive criticism positively in business settings.
About addressing to the lower ranking workers in business professionals so that you don’t embarrass the upper managers, it is common practice even in the United States to practice this courtesy. I have worked as a lower rung individual in a few different companies and honestly I wouldn’t go up to the director of manufacturing with a suggestion or questions about something without asking those around me. First, you don’t want to waste their time if it isn’t a very worthwhile question and second, if they don’t know the answer than you still look like the “newbie who thinks they know everything”.
30. Xiaofei Song | March 19th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Since I am not a Western, the first question doesn’t really apply to me. I think the topic is very interesting. I never consider categorizing westerns, but I think it is very interesting to see the catachrestic of group of people in China. The three “bad types” of westerns basically have no culture appreciation and resist to accept new things, since they believe they could “never understand Chinese”, therefore, they stop trying. My questions is why they go to China, what’s for? Personally, I will only living in a country where I want to experience the culture and people, and enjoy the life there, so I don’t really understand the purpose for those westerns living in China. Overall, I think this is an very interesting clip to bring us the culture awareness for our MBA students to understand how to do business internationally.
31. Alex vanDalen | March 19th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
My goal is not be a Westerner at all. I really don’t fit in anywhere culturally and struggle very hard to maintain that. In Europe I’m an American, in Asia they think of me as a German, in America I’ve had people mistake me for Iranian and begin chatting away in Farsi. In reality I am none of these. While I realize that there is no way for me to shed my phenotype, I do try on a daily basis to shed as many stereotypical qualities from any culture as possible. Preparation for China is a daily occurrence, learning the language, practicing cultural niceties, eating predominantly Chinese food, the really yummy things like jellyfish, fish eyes, and duck feet, to begin to smell slightly foreign.
I’ve had ahead start though since I’ve been exposed to it from an early age. Chinese who have visited the house in which I grew up say it has more “Chinese” junk in it than a typical resident of the PRC will have. Despite all this I’m still a westerner to your average zhongguoren, the category I will fall into will largely depend on how I fell when I get up in the morning.
32. Matt Eves | March 20th, 2009 at 11:20 am
“For the first six months, just shut up” is probably good advice in any business or new living environment. I would add “think before you speak.” I’d probably fall into the Bad Inconsistent Westerner category, but with this counsel from people who have lived the culture, I may be saved from at least one mistake. Something that comes to mind after viewing these types, the advice and reading the prior posts is that teamwork is critical, especially as it relates to this trip; we can help save each other from critical mistakes. We have different backgrounds, experience levels and talents within this group and it would be best to identify some of those and utilize them as a team (take the prior planning seriously) before embarking on the trip.
33. Andrew Welborn | March 20th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
This was a nice reflective piece. It is useful, I think, to step back every now and again to really get a firm hold on your outlook and perspective. Greg Bissky provided some excellent examples to illustrate his points. I enjoyed the discussion on the double standard that is applied by so many Western nations and hope that as a country we can move past that idea.
As far as whereI don’t think that I will be an ugly Westerner in China before or after our trip. I don’t ever have one particular way of doing things and I enjoy learning different ways to accomplish a task.
I am very trusting and could see myself as a mix of Romantic Bad and Inconsistent Bad Westerner at the start of our trip. Through all the readings, I am slowly learning deep down to not try to perform the type of relationship where I expect to get back what I put in, which is how I treat my personal relationships. This will be a slow road, but I feel that in business I will not have as big of an issue with this. I would not even begin to say I am well read, but I am read enough to be utterly stupid in China if I let myself. We have learned a lot this year, but we still have not learned enough to fully grasp the why. Some of us might be closer to that elusive how and why, and it will take experience and time.
I hope that after our trip I will learn to become the Good Westerner. I am able to compromise often and easy, but I will need to work on how to determine the Chinese how to get my Western want. I can usually find key issues that I will not budge on, but everything else I let be fair game. This transition will take time, but I think with patience, knowing our place, and open eyes and ears, we could all become the Good Westerner.
34. Logan J Travis | April 10th, 2009 at 9:59 am
I fall somewhere in the “bad” spectrum, probably see-sawing between romantic and inconsistent. Or at least that is my experience when encountering other cultures at home. I do wonder though if I’ll leap into a defense reaction when abroad - a far more vulnerable state - and pull on an “ugly” mask. When listening to Mr. Bissky’s description of an “ugly” Westerner I got the sense they are simply afraid of being wrong. I succumb to that fear now and again but hope for a few “Hansei” moments - Japanese not Chinese, I know - to reflect on my possible stupidity.
One quote caught my attention: “[There is] no concept of equality in Chinese culture.” I find that a little confusing since Mr. Bissky said it while describing the concept of perks. I conceive perks as another form of compensation for preferably harder-working though more often higher-ranking employees. That view seems to align closely with the Chinese belief as described by Mr. Brissky. Is that not the Western perspective? I suppose we might hold a more romantic view as an offshoot of our “democracy” but we don’t act any different… Do we?
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