Comments on: The Three Types Of Westerners in China http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/ The MBA Graduate Program at Cal Poly Mon, 21 May 2012 22:58:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Logan J Travis http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-12227 Logan J Travis Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:59:26 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-12227 I fall somewhere in the "bad" spectrum, probably see-sawing between romantic and inconsistent. Or at least that is my experience when encountering other cultures at home. I do wonder though if I'll leap into a defense reaction when abroad - a far more vulnerable state - and pull on an "ugly" mask. When listening to Mr. Bissky's description of an "ugly" Westerner I got the sense they are simply afraid of being wrong. I succumb to that fear now and again but hope for a few "Hansei" moments - Japanese not Chinese, I know - to reflect on my possible stupidity. One quote caught my attention: "[There is] no concept of equality in Chinese culture." I find that a little confusing since Mr. Bissky said it while describing the concept of perks. I conceive perks as another form of compensation for preferably harder-working though more often higher-ranking employees. That view seems to align closely with the Chinese belief as described by Mr. Brissky. Is that not the Western perspective? I suppose we might hold a more romantic view as an offshoot of our "democracy" but we don't act any different... Do we? I fall somewhere in the “bad” spectrum, probably see-sawing between romantic and inconsistent. Or at least that is my experience when encountering other cultures at home. I do wonder though if I’ll leap into a defense reaction when abroad - a far more vulnerable state - and pull on an “ugly” mask. When listening to Mr. Bissky’s description of an “ugly” Westerner I got the sense they are simply afraid of being wrong. I succumb to that fear now and again but hope for a few “Hansei” moments - Japanese not Chinese, I know - to reflect on my possible stupidity.

One quote caught my attention: “[There is] no concept of equality in Chinese culture.” I find that a little confusing since Mr. Bissky said it while describing the concept of perks. I conceive perks as another form of compensation for preferably harder-working though more often higher-ranking employees. That view seems to align closely with the Chinese belief as described by Mr. Brissky. Is that not the Western perspective? I suppose we might hold a more romantic view as an offshoot of our “democracy” but we don’t act any different… Do we?

]]> By: Andrew Welborn http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-10234 Andrew Welborn Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:47:15 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-10234 This was a nice reflective piece. It is useful, I think, to step back every now and again to really get a firm hold on your outlook and perspective. Greg Bissky provided some excellent examples to illustrate his points. I enjoyed the discussion on the double standard that is applied by so many Western nations and hope that as a country we can move past that idea. As far as whereI don’t think that I will be an ugly Westerner in China before or after our trip. I don’t ever have one particular way of doing things and I enjoy learning different ways to accomplish a task. I am very trusting and could see myself as a mix of Romantic Bad and Inconsistent Bad Westerner at the start of our trip. Through all the readings, I am slowly learning deep down to not try to perform the type of relationship where I expect to get back what I put in, which is how I treat my personal relationships. This will be a slow road, but I feel that in business I will not have as big of an issue with this. I would not even begin to say I am well read, but I am read enough to be utterly stupid in China if I let myself. We have learned a lot this year, but we still have not learned enough to fully grasp the why. Some of us might be closer to that elusive how and why, and it will take experience and time. I hope that after our trip I will learn to become the Good Westerner. I am able to compromise often and easy, but I will need to work on how to determine the Chinese how to get my Western want. I can usually find key issues that I will not budge on, but everything else I let be fair game. This transition will take time, but I think with patience, knowing our place, and open eyes and ears, we could all become the Good Westerner. This was a nice reflective piece. It is useful, I think, to step back every now and again to really get a firm hold on your outlook and perspective. Greg Bissky provided some excellent examples to illustrate his points. I enjoyed the discussion on the double standard that is applied by so many Western nations and hope that as a country we can move past that idea.

As far as whereI don’t think that I will be an ugly Westerner in China before or after our trip. I don’t ever have one particular way of doing things and I enjoy learning different ways to accomplish a task.

I am very trusting and could see myself as a mix of Romantic Bad and Inconsistent Bad Westerner at the start of our trip. Through all the readings, I am slowly learning deep down to not try to perform the type of relationship where I expect to get back what I put in, which is how I treat my personal relationships. This will be a slow road, but I feel that in business I will not have as big of an issue with this. I would not even begin to say I am well read, but I am read enough to be utterly stupid in China if I let myself. We have learned a lot this year, but we still have not learned enough to fully grasp the why. Some of us might be closer to that elusive how and why, and it will take experience and time.

I hope that after our trip I will learn to become the Good Westerner. I am able to compromise often and easy, but I will need to work on how to determine the Chinese how to get my Western want. I can usually find key issues that I will not budge on, but everything else I let be fair game. This transition will take time, but I think with patience, knowing our place, and open eyes and ears, we could all become the Good Westerner.

]]> By: Matt Eves http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-10194 Matt Eves Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:20:24 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-10194 “For the first six months, just shut up” is probably good advice in any business or new living environment. I would add “think before you speak.” I’d probably fall into the Bad Inconsistent Westerner category, but with this counsel from people who have lived the culture, I may be saved from at least one mistake. Something that comes to mind after viewing these types, the advice and reading the prior posts is that teamwork is critical, especially as it relates to this trip; we can help save each other from critical mistakes. We have different backgrounds, experience levels and talents within this group and it would be best to identify some of those and utilize them as a team (take the prior planning seriously) before embarking on the trip. “For the first six months, just shut up” is probably good advice in any business or new living environment. I would add “think before you speak.” I’d probably fall into the Bad Inconsistent Westerner category, but with this counsel from people who have lived the culture, I may be saved from at least one mistake. Something that comes to mind after viewing these types, the advice and reading the prior posts is that teamwork is critical, especially as it relates to this trip; we can help save each other from critical mistakes. We have different backgrounds, experience levels and talents within this group and it would be best to identify some of those and utilize them as a team (take the prior planning seriously) before embarking on the trip.

]]> By: Alex vanDalen http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-10126 Alex vanDalen Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:19:41 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-10126 My goal is not be a Westerner at all. I really don’t fit in anywhere culturally and struggle very hard to maintain that. In Europe I’m an American, in Asia they think of me as a German, in America I’ve had people mistake me for Iranian and begin chatting away in Farsi. In reality I am none of these. While I realize that there is no way for me to shed my phenotype, I do try on a daily basis to shed as many stereotypical qualities from any culture as possible. Preparation for China is a daily occurrence, learning the language, practicing cultural niceties, eating predominantly Chinese food, the really yummy things like jellyfish, fish eyes, and duck feet, to begin to smell slightly foreign.  I’ve had ahead start though since I’ve been exposed to it from an early age. Chinese who have visited the house in which I grew up say it has more “Chinese” junk in it than a typical resident of the PRC will have. Despite all this I’m still a westerner to your average zhongguoren, the category I will fall into will largely depend on how I fell when I get up in the morning. My goal is not be a Westerner at all. I really don’t fit in anywhere culturally and struggle very hard to maintain that. In Europe I’m an American, in Asia they think of me as a German, in America I’ve had people mistake me for Iranian and begin chatting away in Farsi. In reality I am none of these. While I realize that there is no way for me to shed my phenotype, I do try on a daily basis to shed as many stereotypical qualities from any culture as possible. Preparation for China is a daily occurrence, learning the language, practicing cultural niceties, eating predominantly Chinese food, the really yummy things like jellyfish, fish eyes, and duck feet, to begin to smell slightly foreign. 
I’ve had ahead start though since I’ve been exposed to it from an early age. Chinese who have visited the house in which I grew up say it has more “Chinese” junk in it than a typical resident of the PRC will have. Despite all this I’m still a westerner to your average zhongguoren, the category I will fall into will largely depend on how I fell when I get up in the morning.

]]> By: Xiaofei Song http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-10090 Xiaofei Song Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:41:47 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-10090 Since I am not a Western, the first question doesn’t really apply to me. I think the topic is very interesting. I never consider categorizing westerns, but I think it is very interesting to see the catachrestic of group of people in China. The three “bad types” of westerns basically have no culture appreciation and resist to accept new things, since they believe they could “never understand Chinese”, therefore, they stop trying. My questions is why they go to China, what’s for? Personally, I will only living in a country where I want to experience the culture and people, and enjoy the life there, so I don’t really understand the purpose for those westerns living in China. Overall, I think this is an very interesting clip to bring us the culture awareness for our MBA students to understand how to do business internationally. Since I am not a Western, the first question doesn’t really apply to me. I think the topic is very interesting. I never consider categorizing westerns, but I think it is very interesting to see the catachrestic of group of people in China. The three “bad types” of westerns basically have no culture appreciation and resist to accept new things, since they believe they could “never understand Chinese”, therefore, they stop trying. My questions is why they go to China, what’s for? Personally, I will only living in a country where I want to experience the culture and people, and enjoy the life there, so I don’t really understand the purpose for those westerns living in China. Overall, I think this is an very interesting clip to bring us the culture awareness for our MBA students to understand how to do business internationally.

]]> By: Mark Wegemer http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-9859 Mark Wegemer Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:54:08 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-9859 I think it's interesting about the westerners thinking that their way is the best way because it is true in all aspects of American life. Everyone wants to be the correct one and it's hard for people to take constructive criticism positively in business settings. About addressing to the lower ranking workers in business professionals so that you don't embarrass the upper managers, it is common practice even in the United States to practice this courtesy. I have worked as a lower rung individual in a few different companies and honestly I wouldn't go up to the director of manufacturing with a suggestion or questions about something without asking those around me. First, you don't want to waste their time if it isn't a very worthwhile question and second, if they don't know the answer than you still look like the "newbie who thinks they know everything". I think it’s interesting about the westerners thinking that their way is the best way because it is true in all aspects of American life. Everyone wants to be the correct one and it’s hard for people to take constructive criticism positively in business settings.

About addressing to the lower ranking workers in business professionals so that you don’t embarrass the upper managers, it is common practice even in the United States to practice this courtesy. I have worked as a lower rung individual in a few different companies and honestly I wouldn’t go up to the director of manufacturing with a suggestion or questions about something without asking those around me. First, you don’t want to waste their time if it isn’t a very worthwhile question and second, if they don’t know the answer than you still look like the “newbie who thinks they know everything”.

]]> By: Cece Reyes http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-9837 Cece Reyes Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:56:48 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-9837 If I were doing business in China, I would be conscientious about trying to understand the culture and not assuming that they can adapt to my business culture. While I may be viewed as a bad westerner, my intentions would be to become a good westerner. However good your intentions, it is sometimes difficult to adapt to another culture and you may not realize that something you have said or done is actually offensive. Taking time to understand a culture is critical. It seems reasonable to believe that few people who do business in China start out as the good westerner. I would imagine that most start out as the bad westerner and then depending on their ability or willingness to acclimate to the culture, they evolve into the ugly or good westerner. If I were doing business in China, I would be conscientious about trying to understand the culture and not assuming that they can adapt to my business culture. While I may be viewed as a bad westerner, my intentions would be to become a good westerner. However good your intentions, it is sometimes difficult to adapt to another culture and you may not realize that something you have said or done is actually offensive. Taking time to understand a culture is critical.

It seems reasonable to believe that few people who do business in China start out as the good westerner. I would imagine that most start out as the bad westerner and then depending on their ability or willingness to acclimate to the culture, they evolve into the ugly or good westerner.

]]> By: Victoria Rodriguez http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-9695 Victoria Rodriguez Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:59:05 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-9695 Similar to another approach where generalizations do not work in most cases. People are full of variations that create an almost infinite number of outcomes. For me, I could see myself being the Bad (romantic and inconsistent) and the Good. I do sometimes romanticize cultures and definitely can be inconsistent. I could see myself giving so much that I could eventually get upset that it is not reciprocated - something I am currently working on. Also, I am inconsistent especially while I am learning a new culture/environment. Overall, the MBA courses have enlightened me a bit in being aware of business relationships and how they differ in various environments. In some ways, I have been the good westerner (sophisticated) - where I respect cultures and adapt and insist on a few things. Although, the trip will be my first real immersion in a culture, so I get bet that I will be inconsistent. By the end, I hope that the trip and the remaining courses will help me grow more so into this good westerner. Similar to another approach where generalizations do not work in most cases. People are full of variations that create an almost infinite number of outcomes.

For me, I could see myself being the Bad (romantic and inconsistent) and the Good. I do sometimes romanticize cultures and definitely can be inconsistent. I could see myself giving so much that I could eventually get upset that it is not reciprocated - something I am currently working on. Also, I am inconsistent especially while I am learning a new culture/environment.

Overall, the MBA courses have enlightened me a bit in being aware of business relationships and how they differ in various environments. In some ways, I have been the good westerner (sophisticated) - where I respect cultures and adapt and insist on a few things. Although, the trip will be my first real immersion in a culture, so I get bet that I will be inconsistent. By the end, I hope that the trip and the remaining courses will help me grow more so into this good westerner.

]]> By: Ashley Breneman http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-9691 Ashley Breneman Mon, 09 Mar 2009 08:43:02 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-9691 I think at the beginning of the trip this summer, I will definitely fit into the category of the bad-inconsistent westerner. It seems very easy for all of us to read the facts, and try to "learn" how we should interact with the Chinese. Based on the fact that we all come from a school that is based on the motto "Learn by doing", I have a feeling there will probably be a lot of little mistakes along the way. I want to go into this experience very humble and open to learning about the Chinese culture. In one of Professor Peach's negotiations, we were to simulate a negotiation between Americans and the Chinese. We were told how to act and expected to play our roles as best as our ability. I was playing the role of a Westerner, and had no idea what I was about to encounter. The entire exercise left a very big impression on me about assumptions. While I was sitting there wondering how I was going to come up with a good statement to get the negotiation going, I had no idea that the basic formalities of a negotiation such as hand shakes, eye contact, and business cards was going to be such a huge difference. It caught me off guard, but I also realized that my way is not always the right way. In any situation, it is critical to try and make the other person or group of people as comfortable as possible by trying to adapt. With that being said, there are many techniques that we have learned up to this point including how to address the Chinese and how we should always come to meetings bearing gifts. I do not expect to be the perfect Westerner right away, I just hope that my mistakes are forgiven by the Chinese and I hope to leave China as a "good" westerner. I think at the beginning of the trip this summer, I will definitely fit into the category of the bad-inconsistent westerner. It seems very easy for all of us to read the facts, and try to “learn” how we should interact with the Chinese. Based on the fact that we all come from a school that is based on the motto “Learn by doing”, I have a feeling there will probably be a lot of little mistakes along the way. I want to go into this experience very humble and open to learning about the Chinese culture.

In one of Professor Peach’s negotiations, we were to simulate a negotiation between Americans and the Chinese. We were told how to act and expected to play our roles as best as our ability. I was playing the role of a Westerner, and had no idea what I was about to encounter. The entire exercise left a very big impression on me about assumptions. While I was sitting there wondering how I was going to come up with a good statement to get the negotiation going, I had no idea that the basic formalities of a negotiation such as hand shakes, eye contact, and business cards was going to be such a huge difference. It caught me off guard, but I also realized that my way is not always the right way. In any situation, it is critical to try and make the other person or group of people as comfortable as possible by trying to adapt.

With that being said, there are many techniques that we have learned up to this point including how to address the Chinese and how we should always come to meetings bearing gifts. I do not expect to be the perfect Westerner right away, I just hope that my mistakes are forgiven by the Chinese and I hope to leave China as a “good” westerner.

]]> By: David Caldwell http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-9634 David Caldwell Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:16:15 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/the-three-types-of-westerners-in-china/#comment-9634 As things stand now, I'm probably one of the romantics; I tend to think of myself as pretty idealistic, so I could see how I might expect something in return from my habits of giving. How realistic this is...? By the time I return from Asia, I hope that I am more like mr. sophisticated - that I'm there to get business done and to make money, not to change the Chinese. I think that this trip will help me not to be overwhelmed when I come to a new region, and instead to remember to be results oriented in any situation I'm dropped in to. As a side note, I really appreciate how Greg admitted that he had been each of these people, good, bad, and ugly. It makes the prospect of change seem much more attainable. As things stand now, I’m probably one of the romantics; I tend to think of myself as pretty idealistic, so I could see how I might expect something in return from my habits of giving. How realistic this is…? By the time I return from Asia, I hope that I am more like mr. sophisticated - that I’m there to get business done and to make money, not to change the Chinese. I think that this trip will help me not to be overwhelmed when I come to a new region, and instead to remember to be results oriented in any situation I’m dropped in to.

As a side note, I really appreciate how Greg admitted that he had been each of these people, good, bad, and ugly. It makes the prospect of change seem much more attainable.

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