D-I-V-O-R-C-E
April 23rd, 2008
You may not know who Tammy Wynette is, the lady that made this song famous. I saw her perform this song live during the Stockville County Fair in Stockville, Nebraska (population 57). I was a twitter-paited hormonal boy who thought he was in love with this super star country singer and beauty. I wanted her to divorce her then alcoholic and abusive husband, George Jones, another country singing legend, and marry 11 year old me right then and there. Oh, if she could only be mine.
C’mon. Stop laughing. I will take Tammy Wynette over the Tiger Beat or People magazine ding-dong you swooned over any day.
But this post has nothing to do with the break-up of joint ventures gone bad in China, but a lot to do with marital divorces.
Check out this April 1, 2008 WSJ article, Women MBAs More Likely to Divorce Than Men (same for women with law and medical degrees).
Gents and Ladies, what say you? Fact or fiction?
Are you immune from these statistical probabilities? If so, how do you know that will be the case? How are you planning for this, today, to minimize the chances of this happening to good ol’ you?
How will you lead and manage employees, which statistically will be half of them, that go will go through this type of a life changing experience, so that they can continue to be as effective for you/the firm as possible while and as they heal?
And fellas, let me really open a can of worms here and ask you this — are we a major part of the problem for such a trend? Our manhood aside, are men threatened by intelligent, driven, confident, successful, take-no-prisoners women? Do men unconsciously put pressure on the women they love? E.g., men expect them to look like a supermodel 24/7, stay forever young, work and help the clan make a high income, raise the kids, let them watch our Monday night football and March Madness with the boys while the doting wife serves drinks, pizza and cleans the house, etc. Be honest. If you are the man foolish enough to go down in writing here and argue, “Well, I would never do that, as I am one of those enlightened, sensitive men,” which of your female colleagues and classmates do you think will jump out of her chair next to you in class and strangle you for arguing that you are different than the other bizillion cave men that came before you (and me)?
Wait. I just realized there really is a China connection here. The Chinese have a saying: “Women hold up half the sky.” True or false? And what does this mean? Maybe you can ask some of the women in China you will meet what this means to them.
Entry Filed under: Pre-Departure, China, Pre-Departure
14 Comments Add your own
1. Witold Sadowski | April 23rd, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Interesting study. I think when both couples make a decent income, enough to be independent from one another, it is often easier to leave a relationship than struggle through difficulties… especially when coupled with increased stress from work (assuming a Master’s degree = higher responsibilities = more stress) and less life balance (all work, no play).
Solution? Maybe take regular vacations and set aside regular alone time together if you have kids (no matter how busy) to find a work/life balance. Another (less optimal?) solution could combine all finances (joint accounts) and get into a load of debt together - to the point that a divorce would hurt both parties financially - thus helping facilitate alternative solutions to marital problems (such as mediation).
As for employees going through a divorce… I’m not quite sure what I would do as a manager… maybe try to offer some sort of employee assistance through counseling (my old employer had an anonymous counseling program available to all employees going through difficult events). Because I believe there should be a separation of work life and personal life, I would try not to get involved too deeply with a co-workers personal problems.
2. Simone Michel | April 24th, 2008 at 7:19 am
How about Cal Poly gives us divorce discount coupons with our MBA diplomas?!
Interesting article, yes, but I don’t think the data is very significant. At first they catch you with the main fact saying: “Women MBAs are twice as likely to get divorced than the men with whom they graduate.” But on the other hand, the increase of women with an MBA compared to those with a bachelors degree that get divorced is merely one percent. Furthermore it is known that more men than women get MBAs. Since the numbers are in percentages this could mean that male MBAs get divorced as likely as their female counterparts do.
Overall I think if both spouses are rising up the career ladder it is very important that both of them do their share at home and help each other with the diapers and the bottles. One of the advantages that I can see when both are hard working is that they understand the other’s problems and sacrifices. Sometimes if one partner stays at home and takes care of the children it is harder for them to understand when their better half comes home late and tired and does not want to do work around the house. Furthermore I can imagine that many career driven women have to face the decision of “opting-out” in order to take care of the children because that’s what people expect. Even though our community is modernizing, there are still many stereotypes that can put someone under a certain social pressure I guess.
3. Tai Massion | April 27th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Getting an MBA and a Divorce at the same time is even better than getting a divorce after I get my MBA. I’m glad I can help up the numbers for this statistic. Sarah and Amy, on the other hand will never get the opportunity to be a part of this statistic, because no man could ever be conned into marry them. Besides they would fall into the trophy wife category, not the intelligent, driven, confident, successful women category as I find myself in.
I’m with Simone, would it be possible to get a divorce discount coupon with my diploma?
4. Tai Massion | April 27th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
And really, all joking aside (i had a little comical help with the above post) - Ms. Hewlett’s comment- “successful women can’t summon up the TLC and support that high-earning men need.” Is lame- that loving and supporting men should be “targeted” by successful women– Shouldn’t everyone try to be loving and supportive? Aren’t these the foundations of a balanced and quality relationship? If either person is taking too much from the relationship it will (hopefully) be over before it begins.
5. Robyn Bowie | April 27th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
I do know what song you are talking about Dr. Carr and before I clicked on the post title I was singing the song in my head.
Anyway, I would love to hear more about how exactly this survey of 100,000 professionals was conducted. The article says things like “5% of whom reported being divorced or separated.” How accurate are these “reports?” I mean haven’t we learned that we can make statistics say whatever we want?
The title of the article is catchy, but I wouldn’t be too worried about the results of this survey. What worries me is Ms. Hewlett’s idea that “such women ‘can’t summon up the TLC and support that high-earning men need.’” But hey, maybe she has found the key. Let’s turn it around and find out how many high-earning women get the “TLC and support” they need and take another look at why our divorce rate is higher than our male counterparts.
6. Amy Linker | April 28th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
I believe I can be a trophy wife and a successful woman at the same time. It does seem that men are frightened of successful woman. I think they are just scarred that they may have to help out with the traditional woman’s role of changing diapers and doing the laundry. What wusses!
7. Naomi Guy | April 29th, 2008 at 10:50 am
I have to agree with Simone in that this article seems quite misleading. An increase of 1% in the divorce rate among women with an MBA out of a small sample is not very convincing.
And the fact that women divorce more than men, leads me to believe nothing more than a larger percent of MBA students that are married are women. Because, under todays law, it takes both a woman and a man to get married, so it’s impossible to have more women divorced in an equal sample.
However, if there are no flaws in the study, I hope I do not become one of the 11%. Powerful women are certainly not traditional and could cause some stress on a relationship. Someone needs to care for the children, and if both partners want to be on the successful career path, it won’t work.
8. Chris Carr | April 29th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Your collective comments show that Dr. Jaggia taught you well.
You are not taking data at face value and are able to spot strengths and weaknesses in data and its presentation.
I like it.
9. Shasta Palmer | May 7th, 2008 at 9:42 am
It seems as though, in general, divorce rates are going up. As women figure out they can support themselves and do not have to stay home and take care of everything I think that number will go up even more. As far as the degree having anything to do with, eh. I think it could be based more on personality. Women who tend to be strong headed, driven and bring home more than the male in the relationship could be less likely to stay in a relationship their whole life just because they won’t put up with crap, and see leaving as an option. The other issue is these types of girls may expect more out of a guy and therefore be less willing to “settle” if they think the relationship has gone downhill and they could find something better. They don’t require the male for support, so what is really holding them there at that point?
10. Dena Malloy | May 7th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
I think that a high-powered career (be you male or female) takes a large toll on a relationship. If you are constantly working, then you don’t have time to give to the other person. Also wives of a high earner are more likely to be a stay-at-home spouse and are only able to leave the relationship at great cost to themselves. The husband of a high earning woman is very likely to also earn a high salary and there is not a large consequence to either party if they choose to exit the relationship.
11. Gary Chou | May 7th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Dena, I think for man, a high power career endangers marriage also because of extramarital affair. Let me quote evolution biologist’s view, very insightful actually:
(Bill Clinton Sex Scandal)…The question that many Americans and others throughout the world asked in 1998, “Why on earth would the most powerful man in the world jeopardize his job for an affair with a young woman?” is a silly question. Betzig’s answer would be: Why not?
The underlying motive of all human behavior is reproductive; reproductive success is the purpose of all biological existence, including humans. Humans do much of what they do, directly or indirectly, knowingly or (usually) unknowingly, to achieve reproductive success. Attaining political office is no exception. From this perspective, men strive to attain political power (as Bill Clinton did all his life, since his fateful encounter with John F. Kennedy in the White House in 1963), consciously or unconsciously, in order to have reproductive access to a larger number of women. In other words, reproductive access to women is the goal, political office is but one means. To ask why the President of the United States would have a sexual encounter with a young woman is like asking why someone who worked very hard to earn a large sum of money would then spend it. The purpose of earning money is to spend it. The purpose of becoming the President (or anything else men do) is to have a larger number of women with whom to mate…
I know this might sound absurd, but think about it for a moment. If this is NOT true, then HUMAN BEING are the ONLY ANIMAL IN THE WORLD that don’t live for the sole purpose of reproduction/sex.
All animals in the world one way or another, live for sex. If you study animal behavior, they grow up become powerful and beautiful, for no other purpose than mating. Once they mate and have off-spring, they get OLD and BECOME WEAK and then replaced/retired by YOUNG, because they already fulfilled their purpose…which is sex.
And look around, how much effort and money and energy people put into directly or indirectly to be successful at mating? Why do you think women spend so much money and worrying about… 1. diet. 2. make-up. 3. hair. 4. appearance in general. 5. accessories. Or why guys spend so much time and devotion into 1. sports. 2. body building. 3. status. 4. career?
Ultimately while moral and religion try to move us toward the other direction, the force to simply mate with as many women as a man could is inevitable.
Women on the other hand, don’t want to do that, because while it’s the best interest of the specie to have men that mate a lot, it’s the best interest of the specie for women to be loyal and staying to one man, in order to take care of offspring. The difference can be seen in how much time reproduction takes for different sex.
For men, it takes 5 minutes to finish mating. For women, it takes 10 month. In other words, in order for a specie to be most successful in surviving, women don’t want to mate with many men.
Just two cents from evolution biologists. These opinion above do NOT reflect my personal belief. Purely intellectual and philosophical exercise.
12. David Zarcone | May 8th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
I believe that the culprit here is not women or the mba degree, but rather the type of people that make it this far in order to get that degree. Obviously, not anyone can get an MBA (or MS in IT). Those that make it are driven and dedicated to their work and will put most of their time and effort into their job rather than their relationships. Also, the fact that a relationship between two people with good jobs means that there is no dependence on one another for financial stability, therefore, if there is a relationship problem there is no reason to stay together.
The one thing that I can take from this is that if I am a manager in the future I will simply just hire high school graduates or college dropouts, that way these statistics wont apply and I will probably be safe. Of course if I use this tactic I probably wont have a very successful company. In all truth, I don’t know what I will do, but when I get to that point I will get to see if I am cut out to be a leader.
13. David Dougherty | June 11th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
First off, I need to agree with some of the previous posts and question the validity of the statistics presented. Although there may be 3-5% on average higher mean ratings, that means nothing without an explanation of the statistical tests performed, the alpha level they were performed at, and some p-values of just how significant the differences are. I would assume by the way the statistics are presented that they are running some sort of paired t-tests for sample means, and in that case, there really needs to be more results presented in order to reject the null hypothesis that there is a difference between the two samples (men and women).
Secondly, I agree with Dave that is not the degree contributing to higher divorce rates, but the type of woman that is pursuing that degree. I have many friends from back home who have graduated with their bachelors, met the man of their dreams, and are completely content with being stay at home moms. They type of girl that pursues a secondary degree is one that is driven and motivated, with a deep desire to become successful. If this is the case, having a man that wants to hold her back and make her become a stay at home mom will undoubtedly lead to a divorce.
14. Sarah Ybarra | June 13th, 2008 at 4:46 am
Dr. Carr, Tammy Wynette might be better than the Tiger Beat or People magazine ding dongs but she can’t beat the January 23, 2003 Rolling Stone cover featuring J.T. I do agree with many of the above comments. First, the comments regarding the statistics provided in the article. They do seem misleading. Many people also mentioned that women who pursue secondary degrees often have certain characteristics that prevent them from being in unhealthy relationships. With a higher level of education also comes a higher level of confidence. Confident women know what they want and believe they can achieve their goals. They also know that they can support themselves. Many women become completely dependent on their spouse financially and emotionally. I know a woman who is like this. She has been in a bad marriage for over 20 years because she has very low self esteem. She is a stay at home mom with a high-school education. She doesn’t believe she is capable of supporting herself and is afraid of being on her own. I think that Shasta hit it when she said that strong headed driven women are less likely to put up with crap, but I don’t think it takes a secondary degree to be strong headed and driven. Like Tai said everyone should be loving and supportive of their partner, that is what makes relationships work. I think the statement that Tai made about Amy and me is wrong. Amy and I are con artists we can totally get driven successful men but after reading what Gary wrote I’m thinking that maybe Amy and I should stick to getting old together.
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