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	<title>Comments on: Education: Which Country is Best?</title>
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	<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/</link>
	<description>The MBA Graduate Program at Cal Poly</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 23:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17994</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 22:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17994</guid>
		<description>What type of education is worth more?  Are schools in different countries teaching the same things? Are they focusing on the same topics?

From what I've read about the strengths of US education is that it teaches a person to think.  I don't know if that's true, but when writing my blog on outsourcing, the Indian companies were sending work to the US for multiple reasons, one of which they said that the programming could be done faster and more efficiently.  They explained that for rote programming where creativity wasn't needed, is where Indian programmers excelled.  

Was this because of creativity being "taught" in the US, or was it because when software has been designed and you know the exact task before you, it's just cheaper to do it in India.

I think for the US to maintain it's economic edge, we do need to focus on schools.  We have been ignoring them for too long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What type of education is worth more?  Are schools in different countries teaching the same things? Are they focusing on the same topics?</p>
<p>From what I&#8217;ve read about the strengths of US education is that it teaches a person to think.  I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s true, but when writing my blog on outsourcing, the Indian companies were sending work to the US for multiple reasons, one of which they said that the programming could be done faster and more efficiently.  They explained that for rote programming where creativity wasn&#8217;t needed, is where Indian programmers excelled.  </p>
<p>Was this because of creativity being &#8220;taught&#8221; in the US, or was it because when software has been designed and you know the exact task before you, it&#8217;s just cheaper to do it in India.</p>
<p>I think for the US to maintain it&#8217;s economic edge, we do need to focus on schools.  We have been ignoring them for too long.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Perez</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17973</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Perez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17973</guid>
		<description>I agree with Jordan in respect to the paper becoming the ultimate goal of most students. Having attended the University of California Berkeley, considered the best public institution in the world, I can say the feelings are no different. At Berkeley, though, I think these feelings stem an obsession with the grade and not the knowledge gained. That is part of the reason why I left Berkeley. I found myself overly consumed with analyzing the teacher to see how they graded, what they would likely put on their tests, and who I could utilize to ensure my success with assignments and tests. It always felt like a race to see what competitive advantage I could gain over my fellow classmates. Because of this environment, much of the joy I used to derive from my engineering classes disappeared.

Although not perfect, I think Indian schools have some aspects that should be incorporated into our education system. Spending more time in class teaching will improve students’ mastery of the material. I think if we do this, along with provide a more relaxed atmosphere, will go a long way in terms of improving our education system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Jordan in respect to the paper becoming the ultimate goal of most students. Having attended the University of California Berkeley, considered the best public institution in the world, I can say the feelings are no different. At Berkeley, though, I think these feelings stem an obsession with the grade and not the knowledge gained. That is part of the reason why I left Berkeley. I found myself overly consumed with analyzing the teacher to see how they graded, what they would likely put on their tests, and who I could utilize to ensure my success with assignments and tests. It always felt like a race to see what competitive advantage I could gain over my fellow classmates. Because of this environment, much of the joy I used to derive from my engineering classes disappeared.</p>
<p>Although not perfect, I think Indian schools have some aspects that should be incorporated into our education system. Spending more time in class teaching will improve students’ mastery of the material. I think if we do this, along with provide a more relaxed atmosphere, will go a long way in terms of improving our education system.</p>
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		<title>By: Vitus Holzner</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17971</link>
		<dc:creator>Vitus Holzner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17971</guid>
		<description>I couldn’t disagree more with McNealy. Even though conveying knowledge is an important part of school it is only one part of schools responsibilities. I think at equally important is to teach children social skills. For that exact reason I am not a big fan of home schooling. I think to development into a functioning member of society it is important for a child to interact with a multitude of different people and different viewpoints. How can someone grow to be a tolerant and understanding person if all he/she was exposed to during his childhood were the views of his/her parents.
To come back to McNealy’s statement I am surprised how little he seems to value what in my opinion is really important in an MBA program. Why did he choose Harvard? Maybe he should have gotten his degree thru online classes at the University of Phoenix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn’t disagree more with McNealy. Even though conveying knowledge is an important part of school it is only one part of schools responsibilities. I think at equally important is to teach children social skills. For that exact reason I am not a big fan of home schooling. I think to development into a functioning member of society it is important for a child to interact with a multitude of different people and different viewpoints. How can someone grow to be a tolerant and understanding person if all he/she was exposed to during his childhood were the views of his/her parents.<br />
To come back to McNealy’s statement I am surprised how little he seems to value what in my opinion is really important in an MBA program. Why did he choose Harvard? Maybe he should have gotten his degree thru online classes at the University of Phoenix.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan Wente</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17896</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan Wente</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17896</guid>
		<description>It is scary to think in the future the US might not be the leader in education. However, I think that American education will always uphold a certain appeal that will allow it to maintain a competitive advantage. It would be smart for the US to focus on enhancing its education system so American education does not become obsolete. It would be ideal for the US to use a portion of the money spent on military to nurture the minds of young American children. I think the country should be looking at the bigger picture and investing heavily in education but more importantly early education. Like Indian Schools, we should be teaching more at a younger age.  Preparing the younger generations to reap the benefits of the higher education and to actually value the opportunity. 

Indian children want to go to school because it is a privilege; it’s a step toward a brighter future. Many of us here in the US are so focused on other aspects of our lives we forget the great benefits of education. It turns into a race to the end rather than a valuable learning experience. The mentality that all you need is that piece of paper to be successful is killing the motivation to try hard. I agree many people in the US take these opportunities for granted but I also know quite a few people who want to be in school, not because they have to. As we progress into the future and lose opportunities to foreign students and foreign schools we might value educational opportunities a little more and thus try harder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is scary to think in the future the US might not be the leader in education. However, I think that American education will always uphold a certain appeal that will allow it to maintain a competitive advantage. It would be smart for the US to focus on enhancing its education system so American education does not become obsolete. It would be ideal for the US to use a portion of the money spent on military to nurture the minds of young American children. I think the country should be looking at the bigger picture and investing heavily in education but more importantly early education. Like Indian Schools, we should be teaching more at a younger age.  Preparing the younger generations to reap the benefits of the higher education and to actually value the opportunity. </p>
<p>Indian children want to go to school because it is a privilege; it’s a step toward a brighter future. Many of us here in the US are so focused on other aspects of our lives we forget the great benefits of education. It turns into a race to the end rather than a valuable learning experience. The mentality that all you need is that piece of paper to be successful is killing the motivation to try hard. I agree many people in the US take these opportunities for granted but I also know quite a few people who want to be in school, not because they have to. As we progress into the future and lose opportunities to foreign students and foreign schools we might value educational opportunities a little more and thus try harder.</p>
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		<title>By: Chase Janvrin</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17779</link>
		<dc:creator>Chase Janvrin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17779</guid>
		<description>These are great questions. Who ever can sustain a long term advantage of their education system will probably eventually become the leading economic power. This reminds me of the debate we had in Accounting this morning. While a college education is probably the primary step in opening doors to opportunities for one's future, we are a privileged few that have that opportunity so easily accessible. I feel the same way Shasta does, going to school as a default is not, can not, be nearly as valuable as going with a passionate desire to learn. America will be at an insurmountable disadvantage if we continue to just go through the motions as India fills the ranks with the motivated and the educated. That's what used to make America special. Times they are a changin...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are great questions. Who ever can sustain a long term advantage of their education system will probably eventually become the leading economic power. This reminds me of the debate we had in Accounting this morning. While a college education is probably the primary step in opening doors to opportunities for one&#8217;s future, we are a privileged few that have that opportunity so easily accessible. I feel the same way Shasta does, going to school as a default is not, can not, be nearly as valuable as going with a passionate desire to learn. America will be at an insurmountable disadvantage if we continue to just go through the motions as India fills the ranks with the motivated and the educated. That&#8217;s what used to make America special. Times they are a changin&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Minasian</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17775</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Minasian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17775</guid>
		<description>It seems that India has been making gains in education recently.  I submitted an interesting blog post about business students in India, America, and abroad.  

http://calpolymbatrip.com/2010/india/where-are-all-the-indian-business-students-going/

Perhaps in the last year or two, other factors are being considered, such as cost, or "bang for the buck."  Top flight educational institutions will always have demand, even if it is not for the masses.  I would rather have a variety of institutions which can serve people at all levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that India has been making gains in education recently.  I submitted an interesting blog post about business students in India, America, and abroad.  </p>
<p><a href="http://calpolymbatrip.com/2010/india/where-are-all-the-indian-business-students-going/" rel="nofollow">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2010/india/where-are-all-the-indian-business-students-going/</a></p>
<p>Perhaps in the last year or two, other factors are being considered, such as cost, or &#8220;bang for the buck.&#8221;  Top flight educational institutions will always have demand, even if it is not for the masses.  I would rather have a variety of institutions which can serve people at all levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk Story</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17679</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk Story</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 05:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17679</guid>
		<description>Education, great.   Glad to be discussing a critical topic that’s often underestimated.  It is easy to underestimate when half of our nation feels we are already wasting too much money on 'gettin' them learnins on,' but in my mind- nothing holds greater implications for our global future than education.   Finland and the Netherlands rank as the nations who score highest in a composite of various metrics gauging higher education standards.  This matrix is reduced to two categories, accessibility and affordability.  I encourage all to check out the online pdf. analyzing this topic:  http://dev.ecs.org/html/offsite.asp?document=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.educationalpolicy.org%2Fpdf%2FGlobal2005.pdf   . Per this Education Commission website, “First of all, they (the rankings) tell us that Finland and the Netherlands should be models for the international community when it comes to accessibility and affordability. Both have large student bodies, high attainment rates, extensive grant programs, and student bodies that are reasonably reflective of broader society. These countries are the undisputed success stories of this survey.”  Interestingly, Finland and the Netherlands finance their affordable education through grants with “$0.00” in tax expenditures.

The US scored 13th out of 16 nations in the affordability rankings.  The US scored 14th in “Education Cost,” 13th in “total living cost,” and 12th in net costs after tax expenditures.  The US financed most of its higher education costs through out of pocket expenses ($7057), loans ($4864), grants ($4025), and tax expenditures ($639).  Surprisingly, the US scored 4th place in accessibility.

In related discussion, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) performed a study measuring the aptitude of 265,000 15-year-olds worldwide.  See the site:  http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/snapshot/sf011210.htm .  Finland scored #1 in reading literacy, Japan scored #1 in mathematical literacy, and Korea scored #1 in scientific literacy.  Per the site's comments OECD rankings for the US, “‘We're No. . . . Ah, 'Bout Average, Dude, . . . Whatever.’ U.S. students finished 15th in reading, 19th in math and 14th in science - and in a study that only ranked 31 nations.”  US Secretary of Education Rod Paige responded to the rankings by stating, "We see on the reading assessment that we have more kids scoring at the highest level than many participating countries, but we also see that we have more kids at the lowest level than some of the countries."  Wait; was that a grammatically correct statement?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Education, great.   Glad to be discussing a critical topic that’s often underestimated.  It is easy to underestimate when half of our nation feels we are already wasting too much money on &#8216;gettin&#8217; them learnins on,&#8217; but in my mind- nothing holds greater implications for our global future than education.   Finland and the Netherlands rank as the nations who score highest in a composite of various metrics gauging higher education standards.  This matrix is reduced to two categories, accessibility and affordability.  I encourage all to check out the online pdf. analyzing this topic:  <a href="http://dev.ecs.org/html/offsite.asp?document=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.educationalpolicy.org%2Fpdf%2FGlobal2005.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://dev.ecs.org/html/offsite.asp?document=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.educationalpolicy.org%2Fpdf%2FGlobal2005.pdf</a>   . Per this Education Commission website, “First of all, they (the rankings) tell us that Finland and the Netherlands should be models for the international community when it comes to accessibility and affordability. Both have large student bodies, high attainment rates, extensive grant programs, and student bodies that are reasonably reflective of broader society. These countries are the undisputed success stories of this survey.”  Interestingly, Finland and the Netherlands finance their affordable education through grants with “$0.00” in tax expenditures.</p>
<p>The US scored 13th out of 16 nations in the affordability rankings.  The US scored 14th in “Education Cost,” 13th in “total living cost,” and 12th in net costs after tax expenditures.  The US financed most of its higher education costs through out of pocket expenses ($7057), loans ($4864), grants ($4025), and tax expenditures ($639).  Surprisingly, the US scored 4th place in accessibility.</p>
<p>In related discussion, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) performed a study measuring the aptitude of 265,000 15-year-olds worldwide.  See the site:  <a href="http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/snapshot/sf011210.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/snapshot/sf011210.htm</a> .  Finland scored #1 in reading literacy, Japan scored #1 in mathematical literacy, and Korea scored #1 in scientific literacy.  Per the site&#8217;s comments OECD rankings for the US, “‘We&#8217;re No. . . . Ah, &#8216;Bout Average, Dude, . . . Whatever.’ U.S. students finished 15th in reading, 19th in math and 14th in science - and in a study that only ranked 31 nations.”  US Secretary of Education Rod Paige responded to the rankings by stating, &#8220;We see on the reading assessment that we have more kids scoring at the highest level than many participating countries, but we also see that we have more kids at the lowest level than some of the countries.&#8221;  Wait; was that a grammatically correct statement?</p>
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		<title>By: William Ary</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17611</link>
		<dc:creator>William Ary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17611</guid>
		<description>I think the US school system produces good student precisely because it has the luxury of giving students the option to take classes in subjects that will directly add to their capacity to do work. This seems like a waste but I think it is a more holistic approach to learning, allowing students to use more of their minds. The result is that American kids will have a more flexible education that will serve them well in more situations and allow them to adapt creatively to uncertainty.

On the flip side, the fact is that people do take their education for granted. I am certainly one person who had trouble focusing on classes from time to time. I think that the reason this does not happen in India is because Indian children are living hand to mouth- anything that will help them make ends meet is critical to devote their best efforts to. In the USA, people are more or less guaranteed to have basic needs met, so there is simply less reason to focus. I also think it is a result of the inflexible way classes are taught. I am always frustrated by my limited freedom to learn what I want to know the way I want in the structured education format that predominates here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the US school system produces good student precisely because it has the luxury of giving students the option to take classes in subjects that will directly add to their capacity to do work. This seems like a waste but I think it is a more holistic approach to learning, allowing students to use more of their minds. The result is that American kids will have a more flexible education that will serve them well in more situations and allow them to adapt creatively to uncertainty.</p>
<p>On the flip side, the fact is that people do take their education for granted. I am certainly one person who had trouble focusing on classes from time to time. I think that the reason this does not happen in India is because Indian children are living hand to mouth- anything that will help them make ends meet is critical to devote their best efforts to. In the USA, people are more or less guaranteed to have basic needs met, so there is simply less reason to focus. I also think it is a result of the inflexible way classes are taught. I am always frustrated by my limited freedom to learn what I want to know the way I want in the structured education format that predominates here.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Ponto</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17587</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Ponto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17587</guid>
		<description>The social aspect of school is often just as important as the scholastic portion. I don't remember half of the things I learned in my AP US history class in high school, and what I remember has not dramatically affected my life. However, the social lessons I learned in high school have dramatically affected my social conduct, and were more or equally valuable as any subject I've ever studied. 

My parents understood this, and made the decision to enroll me in private schools when I was younger because they felt this would yield a more positive impact on my social interactions and behavior, even though motivated students could achieve an equally good or better education at the nearby public schools. Whether I received a better social education is subjective and irrelevant at the moment. The point is, my parents were most concerned about the social aspect when deciding where they would send me to school. 

Going off of what Phil wrote, and the blog post above, it seems that many families in Asia value the pure scholastic education their students receive, while neglecting the social education that contributes to becoming a well-rounded individual. 

When I was little, I was like the American students described above. I would say in a glum voice, "I don't feel like going to my school." To this, my father would respond, "You should be glad that you're lucky enough to go to school." I did not appreciate it then. However, the longer I remain in school, I appreciate my education more and more because it becomes increasingly apparent to me that few people have such an opportunity that I still take for granted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The social aspect of school is often just as important as the scholastic portion. I don&#8217;t remember half of the things I learned in my AP US history class in high school, and what I remember has not dramatically affected my life. However, the social lessons I learned in high school have dramatically affected my social conduct, and were more or equally valuable as any subject I&#8217;ve ever studied. </p>
<p>My parents understood this, and made the decision to enroll me in private schools when I was younger because they felt this would yield a more positive impact on my social interactions and behavior, even though motivated students could achieve an equally good or better education at the nearby public schools. Whether I received a better social education is subjective and irrelevant at the moment. The point is, my parents were most concerned about the social aspect when deciding where they would send me to school. </p>
<p>Going off of what Phil wrote, and the blog post above, it seems that many families in Asia value the pure scholastic education their students receive, while neglecting the social education that contributes to becoming a well-rounded individual. </p>
<p>When I was little, I was like the American students described above. I would say in a glum voice, &#8220;I don&#8217;t feel like going to my school.&#8221; To this, my father would respond, &#8220;You should be glad that you&#8217;re lucky enough to go to school.&#8221; I did not appreciate it then. However, the longer I remain in school, I appreciate my education more and more because it becomes increasingly apparent to me that few people have such an opportunity that I still take for granted.</p>
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		<title>By: Danielle Steussy</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17566</link>
		<dc:creator>Danielle Steussy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/education-which-country-is-best/#comment-17566</guid>
		<description>I agree with Phil and Lindsay that the social aspect of education is much more emphasized in the United States than it is in other parts of the world. I loved taking music and art and being in after-school sports teams from elementary school on through high school. I balanced that with challenging math and science classes and started learning Spanish from a young age. Although I can't compare my math and science skills to those of students in Japan, my social skills have highly benefited from my exposure to variety of subjects and I'm, plain and simple, very happy with my education.

Phil made an incredibly good observation in saying how sad it is that these extracurriculars are being scrapped from the elementary through high school system. Already in my school district from back home, music has been cancelled from fifth grade, sports and art taken away from middle school, and several AP classes including Spanish and French pulled from class offerings. To see these activities that I believe made my education so superior are being taken away is devastating. And the most pathetic part of all is that even with the shift in focus, the United States is still so far behind in math and science. 

Perhaps we should look at what differentiates the United States education from the rest of the world and capitalize on that rather than trying to compete with other countries in the areas they excel in. 

Going back to the initial question of who will be the next leader in education, I think that it certainly won't be the United States if curriculum continues to move further away from our core competency of creativity and social-driven education. As I said before, if we capitalize on each of our differences, each country could really lead in different areas and produce a much more dynamic global work force.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Phil and Lindsay that the social aspect of education is much more emphasized in the United States than it is in other parts of the world. I loved taking music and art and being in after-school sports teams from elementary school on through high school. I balanced that with challenging math and science classes and started learning Spanish from a young age. Although I can&#8217;t compare my math and science skills to those of students in Japan, my social skills have highly benefited from my exposure to variety of subjects and I&#8217;m, plain and simple, very happy with my education.</p>
<p>Phil made an incredibly good observation in saying how sad it is that these extracurriculars are being scrapped from the elementary through high school system. Already in my school district from back home, music has been cancelled from fifth grade, sports and art taken away from middle school, and several AP classes including Spanish and French pulled from class offerings. To see these activities that I believe made my education so superior are being taken away is devastating. And the most pathetic part of all is that even with the shift in focus, the United States is still so far behind in math and science. </p>
<p>Perhaps we should look at what differentiates the United States education from the rest of the world and capitalize on that rather than trying to compete with other countries in the areas they excel in. </p>
<p>Going back to the initial question of who will be the next leader in education, I think that it certainly won&#8217;t be the United States if curriculum continues to move further away from our core competency of creativity and social-driven education. As I said before, if we capitalize on each of our differences, each country could really lead in different areas and produce a much more dynamic global work force.</p>
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