If You Are Locked Up Abroad: We Notify The Embassy, We Wish You Luck, And We Move On
April 9th, 2008
Given the popularity and demand for this course and trip, as a matter of statistical probability, the day will come where a student on the trip loses his/her focus and makes a mistake that changes his or her life forever …. such examples might include committing a drug offense in China while they are off the clock, getting liquored up and drawn into or starting a fight and arrested at a bar while they off the clock, taking a girl back to their hotel room and she has a boyfriend in wait ready to burst into the room and rob you (and no, fellas, she really did not “like you” to begin with), proselytizing (folks, whether you like or agree with it or not it’s against the law in China), deciding that their conscience “demands” that they unfurl that “Free Taiwan” or “Free Tibet” in the middle of Tiannanmen, etc.
No matter how many pre-departure sessions we have, lengthy syllabi and FAQ documents I distribute, the Application and Assumption of Risk agreement that people fill out and sign, something along the lines of the above will, in time, occur and it will be a nightmare for that person and his/her family.
You might check out these mesmerizing National Geographic shows I watched some time ago. They are excellent and powerful. They present, in visual, inescapable form, what can be challenging to effectively communicate in paper form to young people who may feel they are invincible and powerful under the aphrodisiac that travel and adventure can bring, just how severe the consequences of a poor decision abroad can be.
These segments also highlight how nobody is going to give them special treatment in their favor just because they are an American (in fact, they may come down on you harder if you are an American). This is especially the case in Asia, where crimes involving drugs or violence are big-time no-nos. China, Thailand, Vietnam, etc., are NOT Amsterdam.
Locked Up Abroad: Peru (I can’t find Part II)
Locked Up Abroad: Colombia (Parts I, II, III, IV and V) (Addendum: yesterday these segments were available but this morning when I tested them they were not coming up; if these do not work for you perhaps you can do a Google or YouTube search to find them and if you can’t find them, it’s not the end of the world).
Locked Up Abroad: Venezuela (perhaps the best one but I could not find it on YouTube)
If you are that poor chap who makes a similar bad choice like the people featured in the above segments, the ONLY response you should expect from me and Cal Poly, and as laid out in the trip and course application and materials, is that I will notify the US Embassy and/or Consulate that you are in trouble and/or sitting in a local jail (or that we cannot find you), and that they need to try and find you and/or pay you a visit.
The rest of us will need to move on with the trip and leave you behind. Nobody will wait for you. You will be on your own.
The US State Department issued a Fact Sheet on the 2008 Olympics that notes:
All visitors should be aware that they have no reasonable expectation of privacy in public or private locations. All hotel rooms and offices are considered to be subject to on-site or remote technical monitoring at all times. Hotel rooms, residences and offices may be accessed at any time without the occupant’s consent or knowledge. Many hotels and apartment buildings may be of substandard construction, lack emergency exits, fire suppression systems, carbon monoxide monitors and standard security equipment (locks, alarms, and personnel). Americans traveling abroad should be reminded to review fire evacuation procedures for hotels, apartments or offices …. The Department of State or the U.S. Embassy and Consulates General cannot have an American released from prison (emphasis added).
Dan Harris of the China Law Blog said it best:
Though I am sure most experienced travelers understand that US (or German or French or whatever) law typically ends at the border when it comes to criminal violations, you would be surprised at how many travelers either do not know this or think that their embassy or consulate will be there to bail them out no matter what. Now before you laugh, please realize many US companies believe their US trademark or patent registrations extend to China, so it is certainly not that large a legal leap for people to believe US criminal law extends to them wherever they may go.
My firm has assisted on a number of criminal cases inside China for American (and European) defendants and, nearly without exception, we are told (usually by both the defendant and his family) that the US Embassy is not doing enough to get the defendant freed from the Chinese jail. When we explain that the US government will not usually employ its political capital on this or that drug or fraud case, our clients seem downright surprised.
So … let me make it perfectly clear. If you get arrested in China, the role of the US government (be it the consulate the embassy, or whatever), will almost certainly be limited to helping you find a lawyer, helping you contact your family for assistance, and maybe helping you with the logistics of having your family or friends get food or magazines into you at the jail.
I am NOT expressing an opinion as to how anyone should act during the Olympics, but it certainly does not hurt to know the potential repercussions.
Lawyers. People hate us … until they need us.
Be smart. Be safe. Come home to your warm bed, on schedule, with the rest of us.
Entry Filed under: Pre-Departure, Beijing, China, India, Pre-Departure
15 Comments Add your own
1. Bradford Anderson | April 9th, 2008 at 8:25 am
Dr. Carr has done an excellent job in describing the unpleasant results of misbehaving abroad.
When people from out of town, out of state, or out of country come to visit us in San Luis Obispo, we have every right to expect them to behave according to our laws and to punish them (and impose civil liability upon them) if they do not. Similarly, when you go to visit them, you must conform to their legal standards or pay the price for not doing so.
Given electronic sharing of records with the FBI, a criminal record abroad will impede one’s ability to obtain employment in the U.S., and you will also be ridiculed by your peers for being unable or unwilling to conform to legal standards in another country.
Prudent minds will heed Dr. Carr’s advice, and avoid the experience of applied learning in criminal (or civil) judicial systems abroad.
One other point of comment: Even if you do not get into criminal trouble abroad, misbehavior will follow you in your career. Your classmates will know if you are “out of control” and will be unlikely to provide you with references, support, etc. in any hiring process when you are seeking a job back here at home. Bottom line: What comes around, goes around.
2. Dena Malloy | April 9th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Another way to put all of this is simply, you are a guest in another country. We must remember to treat our host in a way that reflects the hospitality that they are affording us. It is helpful for us to learn what is polite as well as the laws of our host country. It is not the purpose of this trip to make waves, only to learn.
3. Simeon Trieu | April 10th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
This really doesn’t need to be stated as many times as it has been. We are in China and India to learn, not to teach. When visiting any new country or environment, it would be in anyone’s best interests to first observe, then make decisions. How could anyone make a rational decision otherwise? I don’t feel like the class this year would do anything like that, but for those who are rebellious in nature, know that what Prof. Carr says is absolutely true. You don’t want to screw with China during the summer Olympics. They will come down on you hard.
4. Pierre Michael | April 10th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Wow, I just watched the first part of that Peru video, that’s some scary stuff. As the girl is talking about what happened they flash back to a re-enactment of the scene and she looks several years younger. This may be exaggerated for effect, but if you are stuck in a foreign jail for months, let alone years, life would be pretty miserable indeed. I really want to watch the rest of that video. If someone finds a link, please post.
5. Chris Carr | April 11th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I should add that China historian Jonathan Spence wrote a landmark book called “To Change China: Western Advisers in China: 1620-1960 (published 1969 by Little, Brown).
You could read this for your Spring book review.
In the book he aptly points out in that scores of missionaries, physicians, scholars and others who went to help develop China did nothing of the sort. Though these would-be change agents succeeded in integrating themselves into China and themselves became insiders, they failed in change China. In fact, if anything, China changed them.
6. Jesse Dundon | April 11th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
All I can say is that those girls are pretty darn foolish for agreeing to smuggle drugs. It is a shame in this day an age that people still think that they can get away with that kind of stuff, and that these drug smugglers take advantage of gullible young girls. I would have absolutely no sympathy if somebody from our group got in trouble for doing anything like that.
7. Amy Linker | April 12th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Man, I sure hope I am not the student that ends up locked in a foreign jail. I hear and have seen that they are not so nice, to say the least. I feel as though I have the smarts to avoid this situation, but I’m sure many American’s that have been locked up in foreign territories felt the same way. I would hate to see any of my fellow MBA and IT friends end up in this situation. Please find out what is considered acceptable behavior in the countries you visit and follow those guidelines. They will be different than those in the United States.
This is a recent topic I have discussed with my traveling partners, Tai and Sarah. Although we have all traveled internationally, it is important that we remind one another of the dangers of traveling in less developed countries. Especially, since we will be 3 girls traveling together. We will stand out and be harassed as American women. I have experienced this in Mexico and Europe and do not expect things to be any different in Asia.
I even got into a fight with my parents about this subject over Spring Break. My father, who also is an attorney, has had second hand experience with these types of situations. I tend to roll my eyes at him because of this, and the fact that he is my father and I think he is over parenting. But the fact of the matter is that foreign travelers do go to jail for making stupid mistakes that would otherwise be excusable in the United States. Some travelers do not end up in jail, but are the victims of thievery, rape, or murder. So fellow travelers, beware.
8. Tai Massion | April 13th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Linker we should probably claim Canada.
9. Brandi Eng-Rohrbach | April 14th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Also, on another note don’t lose your passport. My friend used her passport to gain entry to bars in Australia. One night someone stole it from her purse while she was drunk at a night club. As a result she had to get a replacement in order to get home. This involved needing to go to the nearest US embassy. This happened to be located in Sydney which was 20 hours away by any form of ground transportation. She had to take trains and buses because she was unable to use the airlines due to her lack of passport. This was a tremendous hassle for her.
Another bad idea getting wasted in a country where you don’t understand the language. I learned this lesson in Europe where the consequences weren’t tremendous but it could have turned out very bad. All of the problems and dangers that you can run into due to a lack of foresight in developed countries are only amplified in less developed countries. Sometimes you don’t want to learn the hard way. I’m glad someone put up a blog post on this subject.
10. Morgan O'Hara | December 15th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Talk about an in-depth cultural immersion. I’ve seen one or two of these shows, as well as the movie Midnight Express. I don’t think any MBA student would be so dimwitted as to become a drug mule, though I’m sure there are those who will be tempted to bring their personal stash. If it’s any comfort, Cal Poly will disown you. And do be careful when you drink. You can get into any number of hairy situations abroad. Always trust your gut. Don’t get suckered into doing something that doesn’t feel right. That’s for suckers.
11. Andrea Muntzel | December 16th, 2008 at 9:38 am
After seeing one of these TV segments or movies, I don’t think anyone would DARE misbehave to the point of being thrown into an international prison. I watched the movie “Brokedown Palace” when I was pretty young and it terrified me from traveling abroad for years and years. In fact, there are still remnants of fear. I really encourage everyone to watch this movie if you haven’t already. It’s entertaining and it has two excellent lessons in it. I think the biggest thing to remember is that not only are the laws different in other countries, the jails themselves are very different. Although “Brokedown Palace” is an older movie, it makes American prisons look like castles in comparison. Another lesson, which is also seen in the “Locked up Abroad” movie, is that honest, innocent young people can be manipulated into doing very stupid things. Although those girls made a dumb decision, I’m sure things weren’t so black and white in the situation. Those guys were good at their job—forming relationships, downplaying the severity of the situation, and emphasizing the perks of the trip. Even smart people could find themselves in a tricky situation if they aren’t on their guard while abroad.
12. Jason Larocco | December 27th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Being reminded that the American security blanket does not extend internationally is always humbling. Unfortunately the reality is that if you are an individual who feels that the benefits of smuggling drugs from China and India outweigh the risks, then seeing video’s like these probably won’t deter you, but hopefully they will. Either way they are good reminders that as Americans most of us will stick out like sore thumbs in both India and China. We have to keep this in mind while abroad and understand that we are easy targets for negative attention and we don’t need to do anything stupid to promote more. Actions that we may not think much of while we are here in the U.S., will be more noticeable and risky abroad. Also many governments love to make examples out of American citizens to prove the point that we don’t rule the world.
13. Jenna Healy | January 1st, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Hmmmph. Scary thought. I don’t break the law here in the states and don’t plan on doing it in another country. Thankfully, I don’t have any drug or intense alcohol habits that would alter my state of mind so much as to break the law. That being said, anything can happen, law enforcement in other countries can be sketchy, to say the least. As Americans, perhaps we carry larger targets on our backs? Perhaps someone will chose to throw shoes at us?
I’m glad to be traveling in a group, with an itinerary, with friends and seasoned travelers. I can’t blame you for leaving someone imprisoned behind. Let’s hope we can all watch each other’s backs and keep foreign jail time obsolete ☺
14. Nick Chamness | January 6th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Well I would only hope that nobody would make that stupid of a decision from our group. Like we have all said, anything can happen. Anything that is too good to be true ( like a free all expense paid trip to another country) as the cliche goes usually IS!
People will try and take advantage of us. We just have to use our street smarts and we should be ok. I really hope nobody would even consider what the girls did in that video.
15. David McKinnon | January 7th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
If we all just remember why we’re there we should all be fine. Let’s stick together, look out for each other and be good influences on each other.
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