In China, Your Dream Job is Still Attached to Your Paycheck
March 4th, 2008
Submitted By: Rob Belloni
In America, we take career choice for granted. From an early age we are often asked, “what do you want to be when you grow up.” This article, by Li Yuan at the Wall Street Journal points out that for most teenage Chinese, career choice is determined by their parents.
We also learn that for college age Chinese students, there is an expectation that they will provide for an extended family which may include parents and in-laws. Talk about the opposite of America, where parents are expected to help students all the way through college, and often beyond.
I can see good and bad arising from this societal norm. The good is that the careers advanced by the parents are money makers; careers that will provide benefit to the economy. I can’t recall ever seeing a homeless Chinese person in the US, and I’m sure this is one of the reasons. The bad is that for the individual student, their life may turn in to misery if they are doing something they detest.
In my unscientific opinion, these sort of norms tend to flip-flop between generations, and it will be interesting to see what the next generations of Chinese and Americans decide is appropriate for their children. In talking with my friends in their early 20’s, many of them seem to be floundering around wondering what to do with their lives. They want to do something that makes them happy and makes the money. But the reality is that to get the money, they have to do something undesirable. One trend I see as a result is that this age group is spending more time in school to avoid starting undesirable careers. If things don’t go well for them, when the time comes to leave the nest, they may take a more Chinese approach with their own children.
For the Chinese 21 year-olds just entering the work place and discovering that working 70 hours a week for a consulting firm isn’t all that fun, they may decide to offer their children a little more choice when the time comes. The gentleman interviewed in this article already went this route himself, and seems likely candidate to advocate broad choices for his own children.
In conclusion, I would simply offer that life should be a balance. The “Mr. Rodgers” approach of telling everyone they are special and they can do anything they want to is a one-sided approach that can have detrimental effects. At the same time, offering your child no choice and telling them exactly what they must do is equally one-sided, with accompanying drawbacks. It will be interesting to observe how these two demographics interact when they meet around the water cooler. Something tells me they will learn from each other, and find solutions for life that meet in the middle.
Entry Filed under: Pre-Departure, China
13 Comments Add your own
1. Woon Lam "Justine" Wong | March 4th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
For those who don’t know, my undergraduate major is Communication Studies(formerly speech communication).
My parents don’t really like my major, as they do not know what jobs can I get with that degree.
I am lucky that my parents did not really stop me from studying communications and forced me to become a lawyer, doctor or engineer, but I know it is really common in Chinese culture.
Some parents want their kids to have high paying job to provide for the family, but most of the time,parents want to see their kids to be independent and self-sufficient.
My career choice is not determined by my parents, but they have “suggestions” for my future, and I will need “approval” for my career choice. My parents are open enough to let me make my own decisions(sometimes), but they usually would offer me additional advice.
In my opinion, having balance is very important, like what Rob said. Parents need to guide their kids how to live a happy life, but at the same time, they are also responsible to teach the kid to be a self-sufficient person.
2. Simeon Trieu | March 5th, 2008 at 1:32 am
Rob, I was under the impression that the Chinese state told you what your major is going to be based on your marks from the gao kao (college entrance examinations)?
3. Darold Parsons | March 5th, 2008 at 10:06 am
I found this blog post about the gao kao (college entrance exams). I guess it is a two day test which is necessary to take to get into school. GPA, extra curriculars, they don’t help you get into a Chinese college; there is only the gao kao. It’s like a way harder, more stressful, SAT test. As far as I can tell the test does not determine your future job, but it is the only way to get into a school. If you fail the exams you can’t get into school and you fail your family.
I am glad I had the ability to choose my own major and future job, but as Rob says, I can see how some people are delaying entering the real world by remaining in school. I also am fairly pessimistic about the joys of my future job. I know what I will be doing, and yes I chose it, but I am not excited about it. I still am glad that I was given the choice to choose my future, although I think my dad would laugh at me if I chose to be a ballerina or the next Zoolander.
I can see the concerns of Chinese parents for their Children. They do not want their one and only child to live an unsuccessful life. I mean let’s face it. You need money to live, and the chances of you becoming the next Paul McCartney or Brittany Spears are pretty slim.
4. Darold Parsons | March 5th, 2008 at 10:09 am
By the way My hyperlink didn’t work so here is the site:
http://narly-naree.blogspot.com/2007/06/gao-kao-college-entrance-exam.html
5. Andrew Steen | March 5th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
I’m glad Paul McCartney’s parents didn’t make him become a lawyer! And I would love to be a professional musician myself, except for the not getting paid aspect…
But who cares about me or any other average, run of the mill musician or professional? What’s important is to make certain that those few Mick Jagger’s and Ben Franklin’s out there don’t become business men(Mick Jagger has a degree in business), or candle makers, like Ben’s father wanted for his son.
It seems like China is trying to accomplish this filtration through those tests Darold and Simeon wrote of, and I think America relies on our capitalist nature to seek out whatever field we will succeed the most in(with exceptions).
But then the quality of life question arises… And some people don’t want to do what they’re good at. So the Chinese system is nice in this respect because the tests would place people in their most productive area. Does anyone reading this want to do something other than what they’re best at?
6. Simeon Trieu | March 5th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
DJ, thanks for the link.
I asked my girlfriend, who took the gao kao (college entrance exams), about the results and how they determine your future. She did fairly well on the exam and received the results in the following format. It’s a number, like the SAT, but on a different point scale of 900 points, unlike the SAT. Your results are returned to you along with your university and major (chosen for you by the government). You can appeal to have your major changed, but like Cal Poly, it takes an act of God. If you don’t like your major, you don’t really have a choice. It seems very much like a black box, and I’m sure rampant corruption goes on here. Also, if necessary, the government can control the exact skills they deem necessary, if they wanted to control such a thing. It sounds like a major flaw in the system and explains a lot about why students are so robotic about studying. Since the major was chosen for them, they don’t necessarily have a passion for it. It doesn’t mean that they don’t study hard, but rather that they don’t have the initial motivation to do so.
7. Ryan Moore | March 5th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
I had parents that always told me “You can be whatever you want to be, the choice is all yours.” While I love my parents to death and know that they had nothing but the greatest intentions, I really could have used an in-depth heart to heart talk about my career options (interests) at the age of 16 and the pros and cons of each. I remember my mother saying, “You could be president of the United States if you want to!” Well, thanks for stroking my ego mom but, no I can’t. How about some realistic options. How about sitting down with me my junior year of high school and looking through the Cal Poly (or other UC) college catalog and discussing serious career options.
There was little (actually no) thought in my decision to major in Social Science. I knew the math requirements were minimal. I have since grown to have a tremendous appreciation for math and deeply regret choosing that major to sidestep it. Halfway through Cal Poly, I realized that business was my true passion and tried to change majors. Unfortunately, many of the classes I had already taken would not have applied and I ended up with a concentration in management. (And I make sure to mention that whenever somebody asks me what my major is)
The point is, I believe parents need to guide their children. You cant force a career upon them, but make sure you take the time to have the “other talk” with them. You need to educate them and make sure they know the importance of the choice they will be making and then allow them to make that choice. Whether you agree with it or not, at least you gave them the information they needed to make an informed decision, and now the ball is in their court.
If you are going to force your children to do something, make it golf. It worked out well for Tiger.
8. Matt Fencl | March 5th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
I really enjoyed this post because I have very strong opinions on the issue. Rob is correct in that job choice here in America is largely determined by what the person finds enjoyable and the compensation they will receive for doing it. However, from a historical standpoint, this concept of “finding a job that makes you happy” is a relatively new idea. I remember speaking with my grandfather about what determined his job choices over the years and he simply replied “Survival.” This completely jives with what’s happening in China. Like my grandfather, many Chinese labor workers are living only slightly above their subsidence level. Having a fun time at work is secondary to making sure that you and your family can eat regularly. Until these people progress further up on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, seeing work as anything more than necessity to living will continue to be the mindset of many Chinese workers.
9. Ashley Drum | March 5th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
This is an interesting article because I knew a Chinese family living in San Jose that had very similar beliefs in that their children needed to take responsibility for the family. The oldest son, who was born and raised in the US, went to college with the assistance of his family with the agreement that he would then provide for his younger sister. My initial thought when hearing this was his parents were putting unfair pressures on him but I learned that he took a lot of pride in this responsibility. He was top of his class at Berkeley and went on to get a very high position job in a tech company. My conclusion is that his parents made him think long-term when many students today are more concerned about what they are doing this weekend then what they are doing with the rest of their lives. His parents put responsibility on him in which failure had a negative effect on both his life and the future of his sister’s life. I am not saying that this is how all parents should encourage their children to succeed but it does seem to help in motivating people to get a jumpstart on their careers after college. However, I will be resting easy tonight knowing that I don’t have any younger siblings to provide for because I am one of the people extending my education as long as possible.
10. Rob Belloni | March 6th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Justine - You should take a lot of pride in the fact that you went out on a limb to major in Communications. After adding your MBA to your resume I think you (and perhaps your parents) will find a wide array of rewarding jobs out there in the world.
Simeon - I was not aware of gao kao. What a travesty for the brilliant minds in China who are forced in to majors and jobs they don’t like. On the competitive advantage scoreboard I think that’s a big plus in the US column that we don’t have such archaic human sorting going on. You can build an army of conscripts but they may not fight as hard as volunteers.
Ryan - You are right on my wavelength in regards to parenting and guidance. I was very fortunate in this regard. My parents never told me what I should major in or do for work. But they did offer sound advice about finding a job after college, and selecting a major that could mix a genuine interest (in my case computers) with something that could make some money (business).
I have several friends who are undergrads now and I always tell them the same thing in regards to majors and careers.
1. Go on craigslist.com, dice.com, and monster.com. Spend a good 3-5 hours searching up jobs that sound interesting. Look at salary and location. Make a note of what looks good, and make a note of any jobs that you want to get but can’t find.
2. Based on the job qualifications listed, find appropriate majors that will put you on the right trajectory to get those jobs.
3. Talk to your school’s career center and get statistics on job placements for recent graduates. Now confirm that the majors you are interested in actually result in the jobs you want for recent grads.
4. Now plot out your time in college. Yes, not everyone knows exactly what they want to do, but if you have done this basic homework you will at least know what to expect. If you want to be a psychologist or a doctor or a news anchor you will now have an idea of how to get there. You’ll also have the opportunity to cast a wider net if you have multiple interests. Dual majors are trickier to pull off, but very doable if you plan.
If every high school graduate in the country got this advice, I think it could go a long way in a number of areas. The sad thing is - guidance counselors, high school teachers, and parents don’t always think this way. They mean well, but they don’t help kids plan in practical ways. This is a tick on the China side of the scoreboard.
Matt - We sure are lucky these days brother… Like you point out, it wasn’t long ago that people had much more pressing concerns to worry about. My Grandma still talks about picking broccoli during WWII to help the war effort. Life is outstanding by comparison in 2008.
11. Richard Ciesco | March 8th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Career choice in one of the most important decisions we have to make in a lifetime. This decision will potentially decide what you will do on a day-to-day basis for half of your life. With that said it is important that a lot of thought go into what type of profession you will study. Personally I have parents who are 100% supportive of any decision I make for my career and have heard a number of times that no matter what I end up doing my parents will always be proud of me. This kind of support takes the added pressure off of me when it comes to career choices.
But I know friends whose career paths have been decided by their parents. Some fellow grad students of mine, who are both of Asian decent, were talking about their undergraduate schools and how they were surprised how hard companies come to Cal Poly to recruit students. They said more companies came here to hire than to their UC schools. Then I asked them why they went to that school and both friends told me that their parents felt that the UC’s were more respected than the states schools, and they wanted them to go to the “Best” school they got into. Their parents only looked at the academics and the perception of well this is a UC so it is better then this school, and not at other factors.
This just goes to show that even here in America parents tell students what school to go to and what careers to enter. Like some of other people posting I think there needs to be a mix of freedom and guidance when it comes to careers.
12. Justin Jang | March 8th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Sometimes I think I need to play some “Pink Floyd” walk down a yellow brick road and see the wizard. He’ll be able to solve all of my problems… or at least tell me what I should do with my life.
I would love it if someone could tell me exactly what I should do, what I’d be most successful in and how I could make the biggest difference. It would definitely make this job searching thing much easier. While I do enjoy the freedom of choice and a shot of following my many dreams; if I’m not cut out to fulfill these ridiculous dreams I really wish someone would just say “Justin, just get a real job.”
As a Chinese-American I do receive conflicting messages from all angles. My family and Asian family friends value salary, job security and responsibility. The Christian culture tells me that monetary and material things matter less compared to a purpose in life. The adventure seeker in me combined with the two aforementioned influences wants to be a racecar engineer, while the “tree hugging conservationist” in me just wants to live a “pura vida” and live off the land in Costa Rica.
All this to say that not only do I not know where I should go with my career, but also that I have no strong opinion on this topic.
PS. My younger brother has received a lot less pressure to be successful.
13. william jencks | March 18th, 2008 at 1:34 am
I’ve always felt extremely lucky in that I’ve known exactly what I want to do almost my whole life…I don’t know if it was something my parents did, or if I really am just lucky, or what, but I have always known. I’ve watched friends struggle after high school, not sure what to study in college and “taking breaks”, and even college friends graduating and floundering around. I came to Cal Poly out of high school because of the Architecture program here. I continued on the MBA track because I want to own a firm and get involved in development, as well as design. It’s as simple as that.
I full-heartedly disagree that “to make the money you have to do something undesirable.” I love working in architecture and development. It’s like a hobby that I get paid for. I spend hours upon hours reading about, researching, and practicing architecture and development, not only for school or for work, but for fun. And while 1st year architectural designers may only pull in around 50k a year, there is a lot of money to be had out there in the broader development industry.
I do fully thank my parents for the amazing guidance that they have given me, and I’m sure my fulfillment in my career is mainly to their credit. I remember being rather young (like elementary or middle school), and my dad telling me that I could do whatever I wanted in life, as long as I was happy. This was probably due, as Rob pointed out, to the generational flip-flopping, as my dad was a rebellious child of the 60’s who’s parents wanted him to be an engineer. Where his guidance differed from a “do whatever you want” method was the second part of his message: That I probably wouldn’t be happy without a lot of money; and to make money I had to become some sort of a professional. (I even remember him having to define to me what a professional was).
Anyway I guess what I’m saying is that the best approach in my mind is to give your child the freedom and options to do what they are interested in, but be sure to remind them of all the lessons that YOU learned once you realized that you needed to make money.
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