39 Comments Add your own

• 1. Simone Michel  |  June 13th, 2008 at 11:31 am

  Oh no I felt so bad for the store owner!

  This is a youtube video I recently watched about bargaining in india vs. china by comedian Russell Peters

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sjNuFAMyHA

  I think the most important thing is to start low, take your time, “threaten” to walk away and especially: don’t feel sorry! First of all seller and buyer are both playing the game and the seller will certainly not give you something just because he’s feeling like it today - he’ll make a profit. I have never been in Asia so I’m excited about the negotiating experience, but first I’ll practice on cheaper items.

• 2. Oscar Merlin  |  December 15th, 2008 at 11:46 am

  Something I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere is if its better to buy at these places where the price is not fixed, or to buy somewhere where the you what you are paying for. Is the quality really worth it, or are you just going to spend half an hour negotiating for an article that will fade away the first time you wash it. I have been to places like these before but usually never buy anything there, the quality of the materials seem so bad that even if you get a ‘great deal’ it was just a waste of time.

  So is it really worth it to even spend your time there?

• 3. Chris Carr  |  December 15th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

  You will need to try, see, and decide for yourself!

  My bias:

  Re the goal of shopping, for some goods yes, for others no.

  Re the goal of learning about business, it’s a must stop, a ‘mini laboratory’ if you will to study many of the business disciplines, and in the quest to better understand China, its business environment and some of the challenges it faces, including mixed signals from the West. There will also be some best practices we can learn from that place and the people working there that I will talk about, on-the-road, and once you have seen it with your own eyes.

• 4. Chris Carr  |  December 15th, 2008 at 9:11 pm

  Food for thought … In China, negotiating is sometimes, but not always, a mechanism for the parties to test and build trust. Keep this in mind as each of you haggle!

• 5. David McKinnon  |  January 14th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

  I have some experience with haggling, but I am very glad that I am taking the negotiations class from Dr. Peach. I will certainly use the distributive negotiating techniques that I learn in class. Also, we should stick together and communicate how much everyone is paying so that we have more of a chance of saving money.

  I don’t think we should feel bad about getting a good deal. If you get them down low there are plenty of people who they get up high. They’re making their money.

• 6. Amy Cook  |  January 16th, 2009 at 11:30 am

  I’m glad so many others are as uncomfortable with haggling as I am! I’ve worked a little in sales and I’ve negotiated a salary before which I seem to have been pretty good at. However, if my experiences in Mexico are any indication, I will pay more than others for an item. I’m with Jenna in that I feel that I am more fortunate than they are, and it wouldn’t hurt me to pay them a bit extra. On a recent trip to Mexico I gave some children 100 pesos for a half-box of Chiclets gum, and that stuff doesn’t even taste good! I may have to toughen up before we go overseas, or I’ll end up broke fast.

  As for the video, I loved the reactions of the vendors when the tourists would suggest a lower price. Was any of that because they had a camera? They sure knew how to lay on the guilt when a low price was suggested.

  I do hope we get an opportunity to shop at the Beijing Silk Market. It sounds like as a group we could use the practice. Morgan, I’ll take you up on your dare. Anything you can get, I can get cheaper!

• 7. David Caldwell  |  February 21st, 2009 at 1:15 pm

  Wow - these clips were great; I’m definitely regretting not taking negotiations this quarter. Maybe someone can lend me their notes for the plane ride over? Although I’ve had no formal training in this area, I’m very interested to see how my many calls to retentions departments to get better deals will serve me. I’ve never gotten a chance (outside the swap meet) to cut my teeth in a market where the prices are just “suggestions.”

• 8. Scotty Hayes  |  March 1st, 2009 at 5:54 pm

  For some reason, I am not a big fan shopping. So you probably won’t see me in the markets too much. However, I do plan on buying a suit. I will definitily put my skills to the test when that happens. Negotiating is a very important tool in the business world. Even if I only shop a little bit in China, I will be having fun and more importantly learning something while I do it.

• 9. Matt Eves  |  March 11th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

  As for the negotiation segment, I’m glad those were a must see before going, I learned a lot. As a later blogger here I can see the majority is uncomfortable negotiating, and I can identify with a lot of the same concerns and feelings when I’ve negotiated for items abroad. I remember in Nicaragua getting an AMAZING deal on two handmade hammocks and then found out later someone else paid less. At first it bothered me, but I think Mr. Polydoris’ point is well taken and his takes from Dr. Peach’s class I appreciated… I was STOKED with what I paid for the hammocks, and constantly comparing and trying to find a cheaper price is exhausting and unenjoyable.

  I really enjoy being on the seller side of negotiating. I’ve had an obsession with odd automobiles since I was 16 and love fixing them up and selling them. When you put a lot of work into your product/good you are far less willing to buckle when someone tries to steal it, I find this a most important element of getting a good price; being able to say, “well than this car is probably not for you…” Sellers have to put their foot down.

  And as for the addendum article: Oh MAN! That NY Times article is good! There are numerous problems in this situation, and it would require some in depth analysis and discussion to come up with a good strategy. Going in and shutting fifteen down was an abrupt move, a statement… Newton’s second Law brought back an equal and opposite force… I really don’t know what IntellecPro was thinking the vendors were going to do; pack their bags and go home? I researched a bit about international counterfeit marketing of products and it seems a major issue is customers thinking that they are actually buying a genuine Rolex, Louis Vuitton purse, etc… but I find it hard to believe that this is the case in the Silk Street Market.

• 10. Amanda Podesta  |  December 20th, 2010 at 7:58 am

  How strict are the custom officers at the airport when it comes to counterfeit purchases or on what you [don't] declare? How does the treatment compare to antiques? Does luggage get commonly searched?
  I’ve been showing the WSJ’s Silk Market clip to all my family. We’ve all been getting a good laugh (absolute comic gold: “I don’t even want this shirt.” “If you did want it, how much would you pay?”).

• 11. Dan N  |  January 2nd, 2011 at 7:57 am

  I’m surprised that Weathers doesn’t negotiate on the tailoring of his suit. It either: a) occurred off camera; b) occurred during a previous visit; or c) wasn’t necessary. Given the fact that the transaction was semi-scripted (see 5:20 camera shot), I’m guessing that negotiating occurred off camera. “…Okay, 300 RMB. Now I’m going to ask you how much and you’re going to tell me 300 RMB. Got it???”

  I’m looking forward to the Negotiation class coming up this quarter and the trip in June because my “people pleasing” and passive aggression personality traits make it difficult for me to negotiate with people who make it personal (as the kids in this video obviously make it.) It’s hard for me to be called “stingy” without unconsciously feeling guilty or getting angry. Coget would say that I can easily become irrational during tense negotiations I’m guessing that the only way to overcome this is practice. Given the fact that I want to pursue a career in sourcing and supply chain management, I need all the practicing I can get.

• 12. Katie Moeller  |  January 7th, 2011 at 10:30 am

  Watching the video of the negotiators fighting back was entertaining. I am terrible at negotiating and this is one reason why I am taking that class this quarter. Watching this video made me feel uncomfortable in seeing how action-packed and cut-throat the going back and forth was. I am terrible in these situations. I would walk away and not get what I want. I liked some of the tips that the guys provided: walk away, go to the next place, and they wouldn’t sell it to you if they weren’t making a profit. Good point. This video and the negotiating class will hopefully set me up well to put my negotiating skills to the test.

  The article was interesting about the knock-offs. People are selling them illegally but they believe they still have rights to sell the stuff. I love how they said they can’t read the product, people want it, so they sell it. Sneaky. It’s true though, people want the knock-offs so there is a business for them.

• 13. David Hart  |  January 9th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

  These videos and articles reminded me of some of the bargaining I have done in foreign countries. I’ll never forget once in Costa Rica when my wife and I approached a street vendor selling women’s swimsuit covers. As we tried to negotiate a price, the lady said, “I hand made this myself.” She didn’t know how to react when I responded, “Well, then why does the tag here say it was made in China?”

  I have always wondered what will happen with the copyright issue of counterfeit products. It seems as though everyone I know who returns from China seems to bring back these items such as knock-off ipods, DVDs, or clothing. This also seems to be an issue in places like New York City–there doesn’t seem to be a lot of enforcement going on.

  As long as there is a profit, the vendor will sell it. It is always fun to watch people negotiate. I too have found that walking away or not showing too much interest can be effective techniques. Sometimes it is fun to just watch people negotiate to see what happens. It will be fun and useful to learn about the practice of negotiating in our Negotiations class this quarter.

• 14. Cassie Bettencourt  |  January 21st, 2011 at 12:32 pm

  I am really looking forward to trying some negotiation and observing others doing the negotiating after watching the Silk Market video. The negotiations in the video were surprisingly entertaining. For some reason, I had pictured the markets in a much more serious way with the vendors very stern. The video made it seem like this is definitely not the case. Both the vendor and the shopper engaged and also seemed to enjoy themselves. The fact that the video framed negotiating as China’s number one sport fits this observation of good spirited competition.

  In regards to IP protection in China, I’m not really sure where I weigh in. It is rather off-putting that the counterfeit business in China costs some US companies over 2 billion dollars in sales. I also think that the vendor’s defense of simply being too ignorant to realize what they are doing is weak. However, I realize that people produce and sell things because there is a demand for it. The last line of the article touched on this indicating that people want knockoffs, plain and simple. At a market where two-thirds of the shoppers are foreigners, clearly the Chinese are not the only ones at fault in this controversy.

• 15. Jessica Shayler  |  January 29th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

  I know negotiating will be challenging for me since I have no experience, but after watching all these clips I feel I have a higher chance of success as a customer than I would as a merchant. For one thing there is less pressure on the customer. The “burden of proof” so to speak is on the merchant. I feel you are less trying to convince the merchant to give you a good price than the merchant is trying to get you to buy the product. If I don’t like the price I can walk away and nothing bad happens. But if the merchant cannot convince anyone to buy the product, then they loose their livelihood.

  Regarding IP, I have a hard time feeling sorry for designers like Prada who sell handbags for $1500. I’d like to know how the annual $2 billion loss in sales for American movie, music and software companies was estimated. How do we know the customers who buy the knock-offs would have bought the real deal if cheaper alternatives were unavailable? I for one would never spend $1500 on a purse. But I might spend $50 on an imitation because, as the NY Times article quoted, “it looks pretty.” In a spin-off of the 37-year old vendor’s quote: I don’t care what the letters mean, I just think it looks pretty.

• 16. Robbin Forsyth  |  January 30th, 2011 at 7:20 am

  Market tactics are important and the experience of the market is a good one to have. The first time I went to Asia was a trip to Seoul, Korea. My boss took me to the market district of Itaewon to buy watches. The watches were junk and it took all afternoon, but the experience was priceless. Since then I have been to markets in Europe, Asia and Central America. I do enjoy the art of haggling, but I always try to keep the size of the transaction in perspective. When I’m at the jade market in Taipei and shopping for antiques or artwork I am much more aggressive than buying handcraft souvenirs in India. I may be an easy mark at time, but how much am I really going to gain negotiating a few pennies out of the hands of someone in a market in India?
  The WSJ article about counterfeit goods shows an important dilemma. I don’t believe that this is really a cultural difference as much as economic perspective from a huge developing country. The following quote from the article sums this idea up, “But some doubt much will change until China graduates from manufacturing goods to designing them, and has more to lose than gain.” It will be an interesting situation to watch as more domestic Chinese brands develop. How will the Chinese companies react to counterfeiting? If I were involved in one of the brands suing the street vendors I would work on a way to “license” the product and collect some revenue. This would help the PR situation and generate some revenue. Maybe even new brands or brand extensions – “Burberry Marketplace” anyone? This might be a way to satisfy the bargain hunting tourists and satisfy the vendors.
  The suit guy is obviously a seasoned expat. The video is interesting, but I think I’ll need to learn Mandarin first to be prepare for that kind of deep dive experience.

• 17. Tim Easton  |  January 31st, 2011 at 5:40 pm

  Negotiating in the markets is something that I am really looking forward to during this trip. I would like to buy a suit while I am there, so the last video was very useful. As you said, the guy in the video got such a great deal because he was able to come back 10 days later. I am traveling after our trip so it would be great if I could work out a way to come back at a later time and pick up my suit then. I will definitely have to do some planning for that one. I thought the Wall Street Journal video was really entertaining. I find that kind of negotiating to be really exciting, because I see it as a game to get the lowest price possible. In the worst case, I can walk away and look for another vendor so there is not a lot of pressure. I wish that I was in the negotiations class this quarter to practice my skills.

• 18. Sarah Weinzapfel  |  February 1st, 2011 at 12:21 am

  I loved these videos. I think negotiating with vendors is one of the aspects I’m most excited for. We’ve learned multiple useful techniques in our negotiating class this quarter. Watching these videos makes me want to start thinking of my strategies, BATNA, and reservations points. I was a little surprised that bargaining didn’t occur for the suit with Mr. Fatty, but then I watched the video again and it almost seems like he knows Fatty and it isn’t the first time he’s been to Fatty’s shop. Also, knowing the language is an advantage; I think the perception of locals is that you know the ropes and it’s harder for them to give you a bad deal.

  Regarding the counterfeiting crakdown, I can understand if it’s CD’s, DVD’s, software, etc. Movies and CD’s are not out of most peoples’ price range. It’s ridiculous that American companies are losing that much money. Gucci and Prada, on the other hand, I can’t see them losing too much money over this.Someone who has the money to buy Gucci is going to buy Gucci. Someone who doesn’t have the money to buy Gucci, isn’t going to buy Gucci. Whether they are going to buy a counterfeit or not, they were never going to buy actual Gucci. It’s a completely different target market. I’m not saying that the Chinese copycat business model is right or moral, but is it worth the time and money for the big guys to sue over?

• 19. Brady Haug  |  February 1st, 2011 at 8:07 pm

  I don’t think that walking away is necessarily an effective business negotiation technique, but in the silk market, it appears to be the rule. In negotiations over cheap products, you have to show vendors that you don’t care and could just as easily walk elsewhere. In the video, one person mentions that you should pit the vendors against each other. I would think that this would be an effective technique, unless they have the knowledge of the market to know which vendors charge which prices. To survive as a vendor in these businesses, you have to be remarkably persuasive. I personally think that I can maneuver the market and come out with rock bottom prices.

  In looking at the Wall Street Journal article, protection of intellectual property is an issue throughout China. I think it has come to a point where if you have a product that would be useful in China, you should pursue a Chinese patent immediately. As for the vendor’s argument in the paper, “We don’t read English. We don’t know what the letters mean. We just think it is pretty” I certainly don’t believe it. For someone that operates in the fabric business, I would think that she would be familiar with some of the world’s most expensive brand patterns. In addition, the fact that vendors hide certain purses under the counter for outside sales should be a clear indicator of their knowledge of the legality of it. Intellectual property is a serious cause of concern for people operating both in and out of China.

• 20. Kristine Spencer  |  February 9th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

  I have little to no experience with haggling over money in that kind of a situation. So I appreciated all the helpful tips for scoring some sweet sunglasses and knockoff purses at the Silk Market. The best piece of advice was definitely “walking away is the key to winning any victory.” The vendors at the Silk Market seemed to see negotiating as a kind of social event, and I guessed I expected it to be more serious. There was some name calling (“stingy”) that might make me feel a little guilty, so now I know to be prepared. The young lady vendors were definitely trying to charm the American guys into higher prices, which I found pretty funny. All of the vendors also seemed pretty young, but I wouldn’t doubt their skills in the ultimate Chinese sport. China is notorious for their lack of intellectual property protection, and frankly I was surprised to see that the Chinese government was finally doing something about it. Like the US embassy website says, “Any successful product is likely to be illegally copied in China.” I think that the vendors were pretty ridiculous in asking for a public apology when they are the ones selling illegal and copyrighted products. But I do agree that there is a demand for it, because let’s face it, every girl thinks that she needs a Channel bag and not everyone can afford the real thing. I presume that the vendors will eventually, probably not in the near future, have to change the logo ever so slightly to continue selling in a more publicly monitored place like the Silk Market.

• 21. Chris Bruns  |  February 13th, 2011 at 6:03 pm

  Wow, that Wall Street Journal video was intense, but I’m glad to have gotten a glimpse of what to expect in China. Some of the tips that will stick with me are starting at one-tenth of their asking price and that it is okay to walk away because there will be another shop selling the same goods. I have never seen anything like that before, with the sellers being so aggressive and actually physical with the customer. I also really enjoyed the video with Steven purchasing the fabric to buy a suit for a specific style he wanted. Besides being a great deal and well-made, it also looked really good when he put it on and walked outside. As much as I would want to purchase a custom made suit for the same price, I noticed that he had skills that make his purchase a lot easier and less risky. Besides knowing the language and having a prior relationship, it seemed like he knew the area really well, fabric quality, and what to expect.

• 22. Jason Jay Sharma  |  February 13th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

  Never have I been more thankful for being enrolled in Prof. Chandler’s negotiation course as part of the MBA program. I definitely think aspects of it will be a lifesaver when we make our journey to China. Additionally, watching these videos have made me feel much more comfortable about shopping at the markets in China. It seems much more do-able that I had anticipated, mainly because I’ve had similar shopping negotiating experiences as presented in the videos.

  Years ago when San Jose’s Flea Market was much more varied, I visited quite a few times when I was younger. Negotiating was essential, and luckily my parents had experience it. I remember begging for a counterfeit toy, which if you were good at bargaining, you could talk from $10 down to $5 (my parents were never willing to spend more than $5 on “fake” toys there knowing they would break in about 5 minutes. In many cases, you had to also be careful about the prices you paid, because the vendor around the corner could be charging or willing to go down to a significantly lower price like the first video clip pulled from “Gallipoli.” As for the clip, how embarrassing for that guy at the end…

  As for my parents’ experience, I’ve seen it first hand when we’ve visited Fiji, where almost everything is up to negotiation in the non-tourist areas. Fresh food markets, clothing stores, etc. and it’s quite exciting! Ever talk the price of a resort down from the tourist price to the local’s price? I have! My grandfather actually owned a tailor shop similar to the shop presented in Steve Weathers’ video, and they operated in almost the same fashion.

  This is probably my favorite blog post so far because now I’m really excited to head to the Silk Street Market. Watching the Andy Jordan video from WSJ was amazing. I can’t wait, and while the vendors won’t leave you alone, at least their friendly (I originally imagined they may be quite rude). I shouldn’t be surprised though, if you look closely in the background, you’ll notice a lot of foreigners walking about shopping. The New York Times article about counterfeit goods also brings this to light when it mentions that 2/3 of the shoppers at the Silk Street Market are visitors looking for the fake goods.

  The fake goods the article speaks about really are what tourists want and “You can see it in their eyes” as the article puts it. That’s very true. Going to China, I plan on seeing numerous knockoff’s, but I’m more excited about the “Super A” ones that are indistinguishable from the real thing. These fake goods are somewhat of a drawing point for many visitors to China, and to see them crackdown almost seems wrong. I know it sound ridiculous, but I feel that they should feel those vendors alone and allow them to sell the knock-offs at this stage of development for China. Through many of the readings, we’ve learned that China has improved about the past 20 or so years, but that doesn’t mean they are at the same standards as a Westernized nation. The manager of the Silk Street Market may want to start changing the tastes of the Chinese people, but I think it may be too early. After all, they don’t know what the words (Louis Vuitton) mean; they only think it looks pretty.

• 23. Will Moeller  |  February 15th, 2011 at 10:00 pm

  For some reason, I had not pictured the negotiations in China to be a seemingly lighthearted as they’re portrayed in the WSJ video. I pictured it to be a bit more like the NYT video. In particular, I pictured the negotiations to be similar to the negotiating I’ve done in Mexico and Brazil - i.e. done in dingy, poorly-lit alleys for useless trinkets. The silk market was completely different

  I must say, after seeing these videos, I’m much more excited to try out my new negotiating skills in China. Professor Chandler actually brought up the notion that 10% of the initial asking price should be about where the final price lands. She also mentioned that when she negotiated in China that she was told to walk away three times when dealing with the same store clerk. Needless to say, it’s not the tactic you’d employ at Macy’s - not that I haven’t tried.

  In particular, one thing we’ve been taught in negotiations is to ask for the other side’s BATNA. In this case, I’m infinitely interested to see what’s going to happen when I ask the clerk how much it costs for him/her to make the product. I can’t imagine I’ll get a happy response. However, it would be interesting to find out just what kind of ridiculous margins shopkeepers can make off of inept tourists.

• 24. Randy Camat  |  February 17th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

  I couldn’t help but grin the entire length of the WSJ video. It was very entertaining to watch and seems even more to be a part of. A good tip from the video on bargaining is to always ask for a better price and always walk away. I mentioned in the earlier blog Baby, If You Look Good, You Play Good that according to Roger Dawson’s Secrets of Power Negotiating, walking away is the most powerful technique to use in negotiations. Walking away presents a lost opportunity for the business to make money, so they would then be more cooperative in working with you. For the other video of Steven Weathers, I was very much impressed with his confidence and knowledge of how business is done in China. I’m with Sarah on this one. It was a little surprising that Steven didn’t try to negotiate a lower price for the suit. In the same Dawson reading, the one thing to never do is accept the first offer. This leaves the other party thinking they could have done a better job. The only way to make sense of this situation is if Weathers and Fatty have a close relationship and trust each others judgments.

  The article on IP was interesting to me in the light of maintaining social unrest as it relates to the current book we’re reading for this quarter China: Fragile Superpower. It is a very difficult struggle to move from counterfeit to genuine business since the original Silk Market with around 1,200 stalls that attract 15 million shoppers a year. It will be interesting on how this situation pans out in the future.

• 25. Ashley Ogden  |  February 19th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

  I am both excited and nervous to shop in Beijing and negotiate for price. I will definitely have to sharpen up on my negotiating before we leave. Like the video demonstrates, you may not know how much the piece is worth but whatever price is decided is what you have to pay. Obviously these sellers take their business very seriously and they make their living negotiating with unknowing foreigners. Some of the tips I learned from these videos are: always walk away, the final price is usually 10% of the asking price and they aren’t going to sell it to you unless they are still making a profit.

• 26. Jessie Wilkie  |  February 20th, 2011 at 9:47 am

  I just took a minute to look at Wu’s credentials on the CSU Bernardino site. This guy definitely appears to know his stuff. Since he comes from Taiwan (at least some of his education does), his experience with Asian cultures is that of a native. So after reading about Dr. Wu, I was looking forward to seeing what his video reference was.

  It was nice that context was given for the Youtube clip before we watched it. I had never even heard of Gallipoli (the historical event or the film) before this blog post. I thought it was important to note that the characters who were negotiating were Australian soldiers. This meant that there were cultural differences between them and the Turkish whom they negotiated with. It also means that their stay in Turkey was most likely transient, which would allow the Turks to drive a harder line since they weren’t necessarily looking for return customers. The video clip itself made me uncomfortable. It provided the initial laugh of the guy realizing he got screwed on price, but then it went downhill. The guys were complete jerks. When they broke the shopkeepers’ shelves, I literally cringed. On a side note, I think it was Mel Gibson and not Harrison Ford in Gallipoli?

  The WSJ video on Pearl Alley made it seem really nice compared to some markets that I went to in India. However, I didn’t like the gaudy looks of the products in Pearl Alley as much. But I thought that the Chinese ladies in the video were cute. I liked the calculator part too, and I felt like the guy got had too and he knew it. As for the article on counterfeiting, this is a tough line to walk. It is the vendors livelihood and corporate culture is already so greedy and profitable…maybe it’s karma? It’s also sad that people want knockoffs so much to emulate the “brands”. Have we all lost our minds and sold our souls?

• 27. Anthony Kallioinen  |  February 22nd, 2011 at 3:05 pm

  I must say, this clip is extremely relevant to our trip to China. We live in a country that does not negotiate for much (mostly only large items: cars/salaries). We expect that prices are set to a certain degree and only in special circumstances is negotiating allowed. In China, negotiating is not only the norm for buying but its fun! A few years ago, I went to China with a class. We visited many small markets, including the Dirt Market in Beijing, and were able to bargain with the locals for souvenirs. I learned a few things about the process, but in no means am I an expert. At the markets in China, generally they will say a price that is egregiously high and you are supposed offer a price that may seem egregiously low, but most of the time the Chinese will still make a large profit. As stated in the video, they wouldn’t sell it to you if they weren’t making money. They can produce goods for extremely low prices, so even if an tourist feels like they got a good price, they probably still got ‘taken for a ride.’

  These videos show off the amazing skills of the Chinese vendors and are a testament to how many tourists they see to hone these skills. One just has to keep in mind that these vendors actually have very little negotiating power, just experience. There are many competitors in walking distance with exactly the same wares. All a good shopper must do is resist the salesperson and be able to walk away even when the price seems good. A good rule of thumb is to counter them with only 10% of their asking price. Unless they get really angry then you were taken advantage of.

• 28. j hurley  |  February 26th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

  Negotiating is definitely something that is not done enough in America. Most Americans accept prices as if they are set in stone.
  Oversees it is much different, and negotiating prices is expected. While in Turkey it was funny to watch as store owners started their price for goods about 10 times higher than what they would normally sell for. Just by turning away you could get the vendor down to about 3 times over price. If you really wanted the goods, it took about 10 minutes of haggling to get down do a decent price.
  At first it was very awkward to do this, as the vendor would complain that he had 5 kids to feed or that Americans always want to take advantage. However, by by about the 5th time of negotiating, every vendor had the same approach or sob story so it got much easier to get down to a price worth paying.

• 29. Tyler Sereno  |  February 26th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

  I am not in the negotiations class, but after watching these videos on the Silk Market, I wish I was. It is going to be an interesting process trying to negotiate with these strong-willed vendors. I already know that if I try to buy something, I am going to get ripped off. It will be fun to watch some of the people going on this trip try to bargain with the vendors. I’m not sure that I can handle the pressure and stress of the Silk Market environment. I tried to negotiate prices when I was in Mexico, but I did not have much success. The Silk Market video was a wake-up call. You can see how serious the vendors take each transaction and they refuse to give in. It takes a lot of patience and you must be stubborn to be successful in the Silk Market.

  The IP protection rights discussed in the NY Times article seem to be a major issue. Mr. Wang, the lawyer, has a tough decision to make, but he must remain ethical. He must consider the IP protection rights of the big name clothing brands. But it is hard for him to see his fellow citizens suffer and lose business. With all of the protests that these vendors organize, they should spend the time more wisely and try to design their own products. The problem is that about two-thirds of the customers visiting the Silk Market want the cheap knock-offs of the famous brand names.

• 30. Tara Millard  |  March 1st, 2011 at 8:42 pm

  Viewing these videos makes me eager to get to China and put some of my negotiating skills to the test. I often embarrass my friends and family in the United States at my overly eager attitude towards negotiating in retail stores. Many people would be surprised at how many deals I can get just by asking. The way I see it, as long as I remain kind and respectful, there is no harm in trying.

  I have negotiated in foreign countries in the past and I find it exhilarating and exhausting. As demonstrated in these clips, the vendors do not fold easily, which makes negotiating exciting but at the same time exhausting. While I love negotiating, I understand that you have to be in the right mood and mindset to barter. I have a feeling I will be doing some side negotiating for my classmates.

  I truly hope we have the opportunity to visit the silk markets in China, as it seems like the opportunity of a lifetime. As for paying at the silk market, what currency do they prefer? I ask this because as most of us know it is easier to barter with American dollars in Mexico then it is in pesos. I realize Mexico and the US are geographically closer, but the strong economic tie between China and the United States makes me curious as to what is preferred.

• 31. Kyle R.  |  March 8th, 2011 at 11:48 am

  I cannot wait to start negotiating in China. It doesn’t matter if I’m negotiating on a gift I plan to buy at the Silk Market, or if I’m teaming up with a fellow classmate to help them get a lower price on something…I’ll thoroughly enjoy it. Negotiating in China is most likely at the top of my list of things to do in China. I understand how important being a good negotiator can be, even if you’re not a businessman. It seems like I’m negotiating on a daily basis, one way or another. I was in Mexico last October with some friends, and we spent about 2-3 hours negotiating with local vendors on many different products. We were not at all afraid to walk away from the table, and at one point we had three vendors from different shops arguing with each other. Similar to what video showed, we would haggle the seller until they reached a point at which they wouldn’t move anymore then we start walking away. Immediately the lowest price the offered would go even lower. After a few more minutes of negotiating, we would walk away and do the exact same thing to their competitors while emphasizing the lowest price we could get it for. Eventually we would just go to the vendor who offered the lowest price and purchase the product. Usually they were not enjoying the sale, due to the drastic markdown, and I’m sure they were glad to see us leave.

  In regards to the New York Times article, I think there is definitely a problem with counterfeiting that needs to be addressed. In reality, the Chinese government should enforce the this issue more. However, if they do, there most likely will be no more Silk Market… at least like it is today. Like the article stated, cheap, knockoff products is what the consumer wants. When in Mexico, some vendors would try and sell Rolex replicas to us that were out of sight to the typical customer. We were told that the Mexican government was cracking down on some products and therefore they couldn’t sell legally.

• 32. Ben Raymond  |  March 8th, 2011 at 2:54 pm

  In my many travels to Mexico, I have had some experience haggling with the local vendors. They Chinese vendors shown in the video reminded my very much of my Mexico experiences. The price always starts ridiculously high and has the potential to drop over 50%. My dad is a practiced haggler and I learned to always shoot way low and be ready to walk away. I always found it funny to watch Americans coming off of cruise ships in Mexico paying over double for something that my dad had just bought. You have to remember that this is how the vendors make a living so they are always looking to get the highest price possible. I usually find it is better to observe other customers shopping before going after a purchase of your own. I plan to purchase some goods in China and look forward to interacting with the vendors and learning their business savvy. While the interaction can be uncomfortable, It seems that most business people, not just the street vendors, use a similar style of negotiation, so the exposure to that will be very valuable.

• 33. JP Salazar  |  March 12th, 2011 at 11:35 pm

  I can’t wait to try my hand at negotiating in the Silk Market. I have heard many stories about how cutthroat the market can be. One of the things that I have heard before that was repeated in the first video was that you never take the first offer. It is better to walk away than take a lower offer. There are so many vendors, all selling similar products, that there is almost always the chance to strike a better deal. I did find it interesting the tone that the vendors and guys in the video were taking with each other. The negotiations seemed very lighthearted and friendly on the surface. However, I’m pretty convinced that this is just all a façade put on by the sellers to put at ease the huge number of foreign customers that come through the Silk Market every year. I am sure the vendors are very shrewd and cutthroat when it comes to making a sale, even if it does not look like that on the surface. I have no illusions that when I get the chance to visit the market that the vendors will see me as a naïve meal ticket and will try to get every cent (RBM) they can from me.
  The opportunity I’m looking forward to the most is the chance to buy myself some tailored suits while in China. I am looking forward to taking advantage of the cheap materials and labor to make an investment in my future.

• 34. J Vail  |  March 14th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

  I am definitely excited for the silk market now, because a low-pressure negotiation with vendors is a good way to ease into more serious talks later on. At first I thought the comment that prices are really “10% of sticker price” was an exaggeration, but clearly that must be the case if the vendor is asking “well if you DID want this shirt, how much would you want to pay?” I don’t really have a problem with counterfeit goods; a trained eye can tell when a product is a knock-off, and I think the reduction in price justifies the difference. Even though brands like Prada or Gucci can complain lost revenues from this practice, I feel like the margins on their goods are so high to begin with that they compensate for the counterfeits. This is also the opinion of someone who owns five counterfeit jerseys from Hong Kong however, so I may be considered biased.

  In regards to the Weather’s video, I think it is informative but not something I am ready to participate in. If I continued business in China and became more fluent in the language this would be a great way to save on a collection of suits, but it was clear the tailor and weathers had a very informal relationship, and that his shop was off the beaten path. Still, I don’t think anyone can ignore the allure of getting 6 suits for the price of one.

• 35. Chris F.  |  March 16th, 2011 at 10:39 pm

  Okay, I think we’re all smart enough to not do what was in the movie Gallipoli (unless someone wants to get to know the Chinese justice system up close and personal). But I think the videos are very representative on what goes on in a Chinese goods market, especially some place like the Silk Street Market. I think that being Chinese American, I was exposed to this type of thing more often than the average American. I can remember when grandma was around and could negotiate (in Chinese) at Chinese markets to get food and goods. Negotiating is an art form (and part science, from what we learned in negotiations class) and to do it well takes time, experience and patience. I think for those people who would want some exposure to this type of environment here in America, they should go to a Chinatown (LA or SF) and check it out. There are some places that look just like the shops you would see in China and places that have a lot of things packed into a small space usually means there is probably room to negotiate. It is worth a try.

  The video about the custom made suits in China makes me want to go out there and get a few made myself! However, unlike the gentleman in the video, I don’t speak Mandarin and would probably have to pay higher prices in a place that caters to foreigners. But with a bit of negotiating, I know suits can be had for much cheaper than anything else here at home and that’s great for me; I’ll be needing some professional looking clothing for working in the real world.

  As far as the counterfeit goods in China, that is a reality. You can also find it here in America too. They exist because unfortunately, there are people willing to purchase the knock-off goods. If there is a need, there is a way. As long as someone is looking for the “look” of a name brand but not willing to pay the price of the item, piracy and counterfeiting will continue to exist. We should not lecture the Chinese about copyrights if WE buy the said counterfeited item. However, from afar those Folex (intentional spelling) watches sure look good! (Sarcasm)

• 36. Omar Pradhan  |  March 18th, 2011 at 2:02 pm

  Very nice to see this. I can’t wait to walk around and explore the various markets and trade malls. I had a chance to visit my brother who works in the Philippines last spring. My wife ended up purchasing a very nice quality leather purse and I did similar legwork to track down an off the beaten path custom suit shop to have my wedding tuxedo custom tailored. It’s amazing what can be made from a few measurements, a long stretch of fabric, and a picture of a suit design clipped from a wedding catalogue. I did not feel comfortable haggling for price as the negotiation leverage was all in their favor (i.e. they knew I was leaving the country, that I would not be a repeat customer, that I was having a specialty suit made for an “American Wedding,” etc.). With that being said, whenever possible, some other tricks that I’ve found useful are to be very cognizant of the clothes and jewelry worn. Skilled sellers are quick to pick up on such signals, which is why whenever my wife and I travel to places with markets, we purposefully dress down. Another technique we use is bringing only local currency (no need to haggle over exchange rate) and having just the right amount of cash in my pocket to operate within my ZOPA. I look forward to the experience and perhaps even chalking up a “W” during my first go at competing in China’s Ultimate Sport;)

• 37. Kevin K.  |  December 29th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

  After watching the WSJ video I can see why they all it a sport in China — those salespeople were working up a sweat doing the hard sell. Best lesson to learn is to start extremely low — set your anchor price near rock bottom so that when you work up you are still well below your highest willingness to pay. Also, the tip to just walk away is another helpful thought. This looks like a lot of fun for some inexperienced Californians, and should make for a great learning experience — hopefully one that produces some great deals thanks in part to these helpful videos (perhaps a nice new suit like in the other listed video).

• 38. Vladimir  |  January 2nd, 2012 at 12:56 pm

  Were they negotiating or flirting? Negotiating is more of an exercise than an opportunity to save a significant amount of money for the Westerner visiting the market. The value of saving a few dollars may be negative if time is money. The salespeople have the advantage of being professionals, they’ve haggled thousands of times, but it means more to them since it’s how they earn their living. This is more of a game for the consumer than negotiations between businesses, where the consequences are more serious and the costs of deadlocking or walking away are much higher. I read that some cultures would view a person’s ridiculously low offer as offensive. I was hoping the other video would show the suit buyer negotiate on the material and especially the tailoring to see a negotiation for a service.

  I didn’t know that many Westerners want counterfeit goods. If I wanted to spend the money for a genuine name brand, I would buy the real thing. If I didn’t want to spend that much money, I would buy a cheaper brand. Pay for the quality and style, not for the label. If the look people like is only available in an expensive brand or a counterfeit of that brand, a cheaper brand should offer a similar (as similar as legally possible) look and not have to worry as much about the lawsuits. A company can’t simply estimate its loss in revenue as revenue gained from counterfeit sales because the who buy the counterfeit goods probably, and in the case of Rolex almost certainly, would not buy the genuine articles even if the fakes weren’t available. However, counterfeits in the market could make the brand seem less exclusive.

• 39. Daniel Fleek  |  January 20th, 2012 at 10:49 am

  The Silk and Pearl market looks like a nice swap meet in America. However, unlike the swap meets here, I thought it was funny that they sold a bunch of counterfeit items claiming that they couldn’t read the writing and they sold these items because they thought they were cute. I agree that this kind of practice should be regulated but I also think it’s not just the vendors fault since it is the customers who demand such products. Also, the fact that two thirds of the customers are foreigners further illustrates to me that it is not these vendors faults. In fact, I believe these vendors are being targeted unfairly by the big corporations. I mean, I bet these vendors are bearely making enough money to make a living. Also, I think these companies need to start making higher quality products that are harder to immitate instead of overcharging for “real” products that aren’t even that high of quality and therefore easy to immitate and sold for much cheaper.

  The negotiating video by Wall Street Journal did not impress me that much. Yes, it did show me that in the Chinese swap meet, you negotiate the price on every item. However, it almost seemed like these guys were just being really greedy. These guys are obviously not short on cash so why are they driving such hard bargains to these vendors who are probably really poor. I think it shows how people can get caught up in trying to get the absolute lowest price even though paying a little extra would probably help the vendors out a lot. I wouldn’t necessary have the same opinion if dealing with a real business negotiation, but in the case of these little vendors, I wouldn’t mind paying an extra buck or two for something that’s already cheap in my standards. In this way, I would behave more like the guy who got his custom suit done. I did not see him negotiate for a lower price at all even though he probably could have gotten the suit and fabric for cheaper. Since the price he paid was a huge bargain compared to the price he would of paid in America, I believe he didn’t feel the need to negotiate for an even cheaper price.

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