Comments on: (Poor) Chinese Student Memories and Proselytizing In China http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/ The MBA Graduate Program at Cal Poly Sat, 13 Mar 2010 09:52:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Chris Carr http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5372 Chris Carr Tue, 17 Jun 2008 02:43:18 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5372 Lonnie. Good on-the-ground insight. As always, thanks for the check in. Lonnie. Good on-the-ground insight. As always, thanks for the check in.

]]> By: Lonnie http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5369 Lonnie Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:09:32 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5369 Chinese Professor friends of mine in remote areas have been called into "emergency" meetings several times this term. They have been told that there are religious (Christian and Buddhist) spies among them and they need to be vigilant. English corners are being monitored and suspected missionaries are being sent home. The three minutes of silence here galvanized this country and let the Chinese lock arms for the first time in several decades. With the quake coming on the heels of so much criticism of T-bet and T-wan and the "genocide Olympics" it is natural for the Chinese not to trust a sudden change of heart from a west they lump together just as much as the west lumps the Chinese into one collective ball... a Chinese person commented to me about a recent movie that spoke to the plight of ordinary citizens. They told me that a westerner might find it of interest, but it had no appeal for them as they know all too well how deep the well of suffering has been for the common man in the last 50 years of this new nation. I for one hope that the tragedy awakens a sense of community, even if it is tied to nationalism, and invokes a bent toward charity unknown and untrusted for a long time... Yes, my students are more nationalistic as we were shortly after 9-11. What would Jesus, or Buddha for that matter, do? Weep, pray for, and comfort the afflicted. Chinese Professor friends of mine in remote areas have been called into “emergency” meetings several times this term. They have been told that there are religious (Christian and Buddhist) spies among them and they need to be vigilant. English corners are being monitored and suspected missionaries are being sent home.

The three minutes of silence here galvanized this country and let the Chinese lock arms for the first time in several decades. With the quake coming on the heels of so much criticism of T-bet and T-wan and the “genocide Olympics” it is natural for the Chinese not to trust a sudden change of heart from a west they lump together just as much as the west lumps the Chinese into one collective ball…

a Chinese person commented to me about a recent movie that spoke to the plight of ordinary citizens. They told me that a westerner might find it of interest, but it had no appeal for them as they know all too well how deep the well of suffering has been for the common man in the last 50 years of this new nation. I for one hope that the tragedy awakens a sense of community, even if it is tied to nationalism, and invokes a bent toward charity unknown and untrusted for a long time…

Yes, my students are more nationalistic as we were shortly after 9-11.

What would Jesus, or Buddha for that matter, do? Weep, pray for, and comfort the afflicted.

]]> By: Woon Lam "Justine" Wong http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5345 Woon Lam "Justine" Wong Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:51:25 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5345 As I announced before, I organized a candlelight vigil for the victums for China and Myanmar on behalf of Chinese Christian Fellowship in Cal Poly. I even know some christians who are going to help the relief work in Sichun. We hope to try our best to help in different aspects, without thinking much other motives. To response to the religious issue, like what Simemon said, we are serving people's basic needs before anything. People are dying or hurting in great pain, and I believe any person would want to offer their best help without expecting any kinds of return. This also applies to any kind of religious belief. Any true religion would not only preach their principle, but perform them into actions. If anyone going to China merely to convert people without showing their sinerce love and help, they are going with wrong motives. Jesus did not come just to preach. He came to healed the sick, fed the hunger and served people's needs before preaching anything. 1 John 3: 16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. I hope I did not sound too religious to you, but my main point is, christians love in actions but not only in words, and we practice our religion in terms of living out a lifestyle, not thinking what to do according to any rigid doctrine. As I announced before, I organized a candlelight vigil for the victums for China and Myanmar on behalf of Chinese Christian Fellowship in Cal Poly. I even know some christians who are going to help the relief work in Sichun. We hope to try our best to help in different aspects, without thinking much other motives.
To response to the religious issue, like what Simemon said, we are serving people’s basic needs before anything. People are dying or hurting in great pain, and I believe any person would want to offer their best help without expecting any kinds of return. This also applies to any kind of religious belief. Any true religion would not only preach their principle, but perform them into actions. If anyone going to China merely to convert people without showing their sinerce love and help, they are going with wrong motives.

Jesus did not come just to preach. He came to healed the sick, fed the hunger and served people’s needs before preaching anything.

1 John 3: 16-18
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

I hope I did not sound too religious to you, but my main point is, christians love in actions but not only in words, and we practice our religion in terms of living out a lifestyle, not thinking what to do according to any rigid doctrine.

]]> By: Jeff Mohr http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5308 Jeff Mohr Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:36:13 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5308 I agree with Ashley that one of the main issues that seems to occur again and again is the application of our views directly onto other societies. Just because another culture isn't like yours, does not mean that their way is wrong. I feel that this is especially true with religion. There have been so many deaths caused by religious differences and that seems like such a contradiction to me. I was also thinking about the government's actions and wondered about what our government would do. I don't know if they would want certain religious groups coming in and preaching during Katrina and would probably maintain a similar policy. On the topic of Jesus, I feel that he would make sure to first get into the area and help the people and fulfill their needs. If you are just going to try and preach to people, I feel that you are being selfish and almost taking advantage of the situation. Go to help people and if through that help you inspire people to see your views--great. But always make it first about the people there and making sure to help them restart their lives. I agree with Ashley that one of the main issues that seems to occur again and again is the application of our views directly onto other societies. Just because another culture isn’t like yours, does not mean that their way is wrong. I feel that this is especially true with religion. There have been so many deaths caused by religious differences and that seems like such a contradiction to me. I was also thinking about the government’s actions and wondered about what our government would do. I don’t know if they would want certain religious groups coming in and preaching during Katrina and would probably maintain a similar policy. On the topic of Jesus, I feel that he would make sure to first get into the area and help the people and fulfill their needs. If you are just going to try and preach to people, I feel that you are being selfish and almost taking advantage of the situation. Go to help people and if through that help you inspire people to see your views–great. But always make it first about the people there and making sure to help them restart their lives.

]]> By: Richard Ciesco http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5305 Richard Ciesco Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:29:08 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5305 from current days living standards, that they are satisfied with the ways things is now. They see all the growth going one around them and see opportunities for them. This will cause little reason to cry out against the government. Again these people don’t know life any other way. So until people see the economy slow down I think the younger people will continue to support what is going on. A limited few may know that is going on behind the scenes but they rest I bet are content. As far as the religion issue goes, I am not a very religious man but I will say that I believe that people should be able to practice and spread the world any religion. Sneaking around the government to do this may be the only way that this can happen in some places. As long as the people doing it know that if they get caught that bad things are likely to happen that I am ok with it. I don’t think Jesus would have a problem with that because well, he had to do the same thing. from current days living standards, that they are satisfied with the ways things is now. They see all the growth going one around them and see opportunities for them. This will cause little reason to cry out against the government. Again these people don’t know life any other way. So until people see the economy slow down I think the younger people will continue to support what is going on. A limited few may know that is going on behind the scenes but they rest I bet are content.

As far as the religion issue goes, I am not a very religious man but I will say that I believe that people should be able to practice and spread the world any religion. Sneaking around the government to do this may be the only way that this can happen in some places. As long as the people doing it know that if they get caught that bad things are likely to happen that I am ok with it. I don’t think Jesus would have a problem with that because well, he had to do the same thing.

]]> By: William Jencks http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5294 William Jencks Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:37:34 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5294 I'm going out of my way to publicly avoid this one. I’m going out of my way to publicly avoid this one.

]]> By: Simeon Trieu http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5270 Simeon Trieu Fri, 06 Jun 2008 02:34:41 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5270 "What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." -- James 2:14-17,26 (NIV) “What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead…As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”

– James 2:14-17,26 (NIV)

]]> By: Simeon Trieu http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5268 Simeon Trieu Fri, 06 Jun 2008 02:09:02 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5268 The funny thing is that these news reporters think this "newfound" patriotism is actually a new occurrence for the Chinese students. On the contrary, the recent news events have just brought to light what was underrepresented by the Western media. Look at China and India, they are prideful of their country and believe that they are at least on par if not better than the US. Their youth are vibrant and have a thirst for success. As Rob said, they are in a good period of their country's history. How can they complain? They are becoming less totalitarian and more authoritarian. They enjoy more of a market economy. And the youth are finding new avenues of expression in business, manufacturing, art, engineering, and others. As for the aid for Sichuan, what is the use of proselytizing if the people's basic needs are not met first? I think these missionaries have the intentions of helping them find their physical needs first, then their spiritual needs. Very few missionaries endure the inconvenience of leaving home without a good helping of selflessness and a compassion for the people they will serve. I think these missionaries had the right intentions but a bad plan. China has enough people to take care of their own that are probably more concerned about their own country than a group of foreigners are. They certainly don't need more people in Sichuan causing logistical problems to increase. What about the safety of those who enter? It is a disaster site. How will they feed those volunteers entering the province? It is much more efficient to give China money and resources to help themselves rather than ship ourselves and the aid over, when just the aid will do. I want to help, like anybody next to me, but I am just not positioned in the best way to help. But I can give money and resources. The funny thing is that these news reporters think this “newfound” patriotism is actually a new occurrence for the Chinese students. On the contrary, the recent news events have just brought to light what was underrepresented by the Western media. Look at China and India, they are prideful of their country and believe that they are at least on par if not better than the US. Their youth are vibrant and have a thirst for success. As Rob said, they are in a good period of their country’s history. How can they complain? They are becoming less totalitarian and more authoritarian. They enjoy more of a market economy. And the youth are finding new avenues of expression in business, manufacturing, art, engineering, and others.

As for the aid for Sichuan, what is the use of proselytizing if the people’s basic needs are not met first? I think these missionaries have the intentions of helping them find their physical needs first, then their spiritual needs. Very few missionaries endure the inconvenience of leaving home without a good helping of selflessness and a compassion for the people they will serve. I think these missionaries had the right intentions but a bad plan. China has enough people to take care of their own that are probably more concerned about their own country than a group of foreigners are. They certainly don’t need more people in Sichuan causing logistical problems to increase. What about the safety of those who enter? It is a disaster site. How will they feed those volunteers entering the province? It is much more efficient to give China money and resources to help themselves rather than ship ourselves and the aid over, when just the aid will do. I want to help, like anybody next to me, but I am just not positioned in the best way to help. But I can give money and resources.

]]> By: Ashley Drum http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5266 Ashley Drum Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:20:18 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5266 I feel that the WSJ article "Chinese Students Rally, but Often In Support of Government" brings up an important point for all of us before we go to China. Although the Chinese may not live the same way we do, it doesn't mean they have to be saved. So many of us look down on the Chinese government, but most of us have an outsiders view. I don't agree with everything the government in China does, but I think it is important to try and understand their culture and history before making rash decisions. I am glad to see the youth of China volenteering and supporting the Beijing Olympics because that is what the games are truly about; bring nations together and celebrating their unity. I am not saying that Chinese people should forget the past and the terrible things that have happened, but I am glad to see that they are moving forward. Besides, unrest in China is not only going to affect their government, it is going to have an impact on the whole world. I feel that the WSJ article “Chinese Students Rally, but Often In Support of Government” brings up an important point for all of us before we go to China. Although the Chinese may not live the same way we do, it doesn’t mean they have to be saved. So many of us look down on the Chinese government, but most of us have an outsiders view. I don’t agree with everything the government in China does, but I think it is important to try and understand their culture and history before making rash decisions. I am glad to see the youth of China volenteering and supporting the Beijing Olympics because that is what the games are truly about; bring nations together and celebrating their unity. I am not saying that Chinese people should forget the past and the terrible things that have happened, but I am glad to see that they are moving forward. Besides, unrest in China is not only going to affect their government, it is going to have an impact on the whole world.

]]> By: Nic Marlin http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5264 Nic Marlin Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:03:36 +0000 http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/poor-student-memories-and-proselytizing-in-china/#comment-5264 Regardless of how much I read and lean about the students’ views regarding the issues of democracy and individual freedom in China, I am still unsure what to think. The Wall Street Journal article titled, “Chinese Students Rally, but Often In Support of Government,” Ruth Cherrington pointed out that “Chinese students are pragmatists now.” It is this very issue that has had me uncertain about what I believe is in their best interests. My understanding of pragmatists is that they believe that the meaning of an idea or a proposition lies in its observable practical consequences. Most students in China are very patriotic and believe in their current governmental system. They have seen general improvement and are benefiting from the tremendous financial progress China has made recently. Why would they want change? Would I have wanted a major shift in our governmental structure during the good times of our last economic boom period? No. I also believe that the Chinese government has done a great job instilling this patriotism into their youth and covering up anything inconsistent with them being the best thing for China. As far as what Jesus would do… not a clue? I have never met the guy, nor do I know the slightest about Christianity. I do not believe, however, that it matters what the motivation for going there is as long as one is going there to help and contribute to people in need. If someone wants to prey and preach at the same time they are giving aid, then I say let them. People are either going to listen and be comforted by what the preacher is saying, or reject it and receive the aid despite. Either way, it is a win-win situation from my perspective. Regardless of how much I read and lean about the students’ views regarding the issues of democracy and individual freedom in China, I am still unsure what to think. The Wall Street Journal article titled, “Chinese Students Rally, but Often In Support of Government,” Ruth Cherrington pointed out that “Chinese students are pragmatists now.” It is this very issue that has had me uncertain about what I believe is in their best interests. My understanding of pragmatists is that they believe that the meaning of an idea or a proposition lies in its observable practical consequences. Most students in China are very patriotic and believe in their current governmental system. They have seen general improvement and are benefiting from the tremendous financial progress China has made recently. Why would they want change? Would I have wanted a major shift in our governmental structure during the good times of our last economic boom period? No. I also believe that the Chinese government has done a great job instilling this patriotism into their youth and covering up anything inconsistent with them being the best thing for China.

As far as what Jesus would do… not a clue? I have never met the guy, nor do I know the slightest about Christianity. I do not believe, however, that it matters what the motivation for going there is as long as one is going there to help and contribute to people in need. If someone wants to prey and preach at the same time they are giving aid, then I say let them. People are either going to listen and be comforted by what the preacher is saying, or reject it and receive the aid despite. Either way, it is a win-win situation from my perspective.

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