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	<title>Comments on: Will Paying More Change Behavior And Make Someone More Ethical?</title>
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	<description>The OCOB Graduate Program</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Frank Wallace</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/will-paying-more-change-behavior-and-make-someone-more-ethical/#comment-3629</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I also agree that throwing money at this problem will not make it go away. In fact, it would probably end up making things worse. Like Midler mentioned, paying the Chinese suppliers more money will just send them the wrong message that it’s good that they are producing cheap low quality products. However, throwing money at the right area might solve the problem. What I don’t understand is what the American businesses are thinking. It seems pretty clear to me in the years I’ve been on this planet that for the most part, you get what you pay for. So if companies are paying dirt cheap labor prices over in China, then how can they possibly be expecting to get a superior product in return? That logic just doesn’t make sense. Like Gary said, we need to place the blame on the American companies because they should know better, but the Chinese factories are just doing what they are instructed to do. 

My solution to this problem is similar to Brandi’s solution. I think that you need to look around for good suppliers. They are definitely out there, but they will most likely cost more than the really cheap labor that can be found. So in the end, I guess you are still throwing extra money at a problem, but you are doing it in a smart way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also agree that throwing money at this problem will not make it go away. In fact, it would probably end up making things worse. Like Midler mentioned, paying the Chinese suppliers more money will just send them the wrong message that it’s good that they are producing cheap low quality products. However, throwing money at the right area might solve the problem. What I don’t understand is what the American businesses are thinking. It seems pretty clear to me in the years I’ve been on this planet that for the most part, you get what you pay for. So if companies are paying dirt cheap labor prices over in China, then how can they possibly be expecting to get a superior product in return? That logic just doesn’t make sense. Like Gary said, we need to place the blame on the American companies because they should know better, but the Chinese factories are just doing what they are instructed to do. </p>
<p>My solution to this problem is similar to Brandi’s solution. I think that you need to look around for good suppliers. They are definitely out there, but they will most likely cost more than the really cheap labor that can be found. So in the end, I guess you are still throwing extra money at a problem, but you are doing it in a smart way.</p>
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		<title>By: Dena Malloy</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/will-paying-more-change-behavior-and-make-someone-more-ethical/#comment-3461</link>
		<dc:creator>Dena Malloy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 00:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don't think money can solve these problems entirely, but it will definitely help.  If you impose high fines for violating labor laws or producing "fake" products you have introduced a money stick.  If you pay suppliers a little bit more for their goods, you have introduced a money carrot.  I don't believe that paying a bad supplier more money will get you a better product, but I do believe that when bidding a contract, picking your supplier by only looking at the one with the lowest price is almost guaranteed to get you a poor quality product.  

I have hired and fired employees (probably not nearly as many as you, Dr. Carr) and I agree that giving a bad employee more money will not improve their performance and giving a good employee more money will not make them a superior employee.    I do believe, however, that trying to hire employees below the going rate will not get you a superior employee.  You will end up hiring and firing a bunch of bad employees.  Paying a high salary definitely does not guarantee you a great employee, but I do believe that it increase the odds that you will find one.  It is also important, to give raises to good employees or you may turn them into bad employees be effectively paying them less every year.

There are ethical and hard-working people everywhere just like there are unethical and lazy ones.  I think you will be hard pressed to get a person or a company with a great reputation to work for you at bottom of the barrel prices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think money can solve these problems entirely, but it will definitely help.  If you impose high fines for violating labor laws or producing &#8220;fake&#8221; products you have introduced a money stick.  If you pay suppliers a little bit more for their goods, you have introduced a money carrot.  I don&#8217;t believe that paying a bad supplier more money will get you a better product, but I do believe that when bidding a contract, picking your supplier by only looking at the one with the lowest price is almost guaranteed to get you a poor quality product.  </p>
<p>I have hired and fired employees (probably not nearly as many as you, Dr. Carr) and I agree that giving a bad employee more money will not improve their performance and giving a good employee more money will not make them a superior employee.    I do believe, however, that trying to hire employees below the going rate will not get you a superior employee.  You will end up hiring and firing a bunch of bad employees.  Paying a high salary definitely does not guarantee you a great employee, but I do believe that it increase the odds that you will find one.  It is also important, to give raises to good employees or you may turn them into bad employees be effectively paying them less every year.</p>
<p>There are ethical and hard-working people everywhere just like there are unethical and lazy ones.  I think you will be hard pressed to get a person or a company with a great reputation to work for you at bottom of the barrel prices.</p>
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		<title>By: Simeon Trieu</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/will-paying-more-change-behavior-and-make-someone-more-ethical/#comment-3458</link>
		<dc:creator>Simeon Trieu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/will-paying-more-change-behavior-and-make-someone-more-ethical/#comment-3458</guid>
		<description>Incentives are more than just money. Sometimes, they are cultural. China's ideals come from party ideals. The People's Republic of China is communist/socialist/capitalist and has been under constant change since the founding of the PRC. Take the Great Leap Forward, for example. Mao commanded the Chinese proletariat to produce steel in mass quantities to surge China into a "great leap forward". However, the quality standards were lacking, many quantity quotas were falsified, and people were starving since they weren't growing food anymore. Keeping up with the incessant demands of steel on Mao's orders were a stressor to managers. They just couldn't keep up. 

Chinese have gotten themselves in a similar situation in the current years. They are the factory of the world now and produce goods at a cheap rate, but the demand is great and managers need to cut corners here and there to actually keep up. Part of it is their quality control issues, and other times, it's just the attitude of the workers. They do their minimum and aren't compensated for the extra work they put in.

From an economics standpoint, these managers and employees are unmotivated because of poor compensation. Why not award them the base amount (ie. $1000, in this example), and a significant bonus up to $2000 for better quality or higher yield?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incentives are more than just money. Sometimes, they are cultural. China&#8217;s ideals come from party ideals. The People&#8217;s Republic of China is communist/socialist/capitalist and has been under constant change since the founding of the PRC. Take the Great Leap Forward, for example. Mao commanded the Chinese proletariat to produce steel in mass quantities to surge China into a &#8220;great leap forward&#8221;. However, the quality standards were lacking, many quantity quotas were falsified, and people were starving since they weren&#8217;t growing food anymore. Keeping up with the incessant demands of steel on Mao&#8217;s orders were a stressor to managers. They just couldn&#8217;t keep up. </p>
<p>Chinese have gotten themselves in a similar situation in the current years. They are the factory of the world now and produce goods at a cheap rate, but the demand is great and managers need to cut corners here and there to actually keep up. Part of it is their quality control issues, and other times, it&#8217;s just the attitude of the workers. They do their minimum and aren&#8217;t compensated for the extra work they put in.</p>
<p>From an economics standpoint, these managers and employees are unmotivated because of poor compensation. Why not award them the base amount (ie. $1000, in this example), and a significant bonus up to $2000 for better quality or higher yield?</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Chou</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/will-paying-more-change-behavior-and-make-someone-more-ethical/#comment-3456</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Chou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 06:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/will-paying-more-change-behavior-and-make-someone-more-ethical/#comment-3456</guid>
		<description>The cause of unethical business product/practice is not Chinese cheap labor or Chinese factory managers, but foreign companies who exploit the lenient standard and consequently pass all the blame to the image of China.

Chinese people are just hired hands, agents of those who pay them. We must require American companies to follow stringent regulations even when they do business in China.

Passing blame to Chinese labor while might offload short term liability for a foreign corporation, the ultimate victims will always be American consumers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cause of unethical business product/practice is not Chinese cheap labor or Chinese factory managers, but foreign companies who exploit the lenient standard and consequently pass all the blame to the image of China.</p>
<p>Chinese people are just hired hands, agents of those who pay them. We must require American companies to follow stringent regulations even when they do business in China.</p>
<p>Passing blame to Chinese labor while might offload short term liability for a foreign corporation, the ultimate victims will always be American consumers.</p>
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		<title>By: Woon Lam "Justine" Wong</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/will-paying-more-change-behavior-and-make-someone-more-ethical/#comment-3454</link>
		<dc:creator>Woon Lam "Justine" Wong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/will-paying-more-change-behavior-and-make-someone-more-ethical/#comment-3454</guid>
		<description>My father once told me "A problem that can solved by money is not a problem". 

I truly believe that the ethical issue we discuss here cannot be solved by money, like other ethical issues. No one can control others' behavior, not even provide better incentives. 

The ethical issue here is more about the standard and norm of the culture than the incentive. There are many Chinese suppliers or manufacturers cutting corners and making "fake" products, not only a few. On top of reducing production cost, it seems that it is their normal way of doing things. 
I remember seeing the pictures from the post titled,‘The’ Way vs. ‘A’ Way (Japan v China dept) under the December 4th post. The pictures show that the Japanese focus on “The” way of doing things, fulfilling all the proper standards and procedures. In contrast, the Chinese focus on finding “A” way to get things done, not caring about how to accomplish it. 

I don’t have a solid solution for the ethical issue in this discussion. It is either starts from better education for the younger generations or posting heavier penalty for the suppliers.   
However, I do have suggestions for the quality control. Like what Chris said, the U.S. companies can send representatives to China to assess their factories more regularly, not until something big happened. 

Like the US, Japan imports a lot of goods from China. It has less trouble or recall, why? It is because the Japanese set very high standard of their product, and they have close supervision for the manufacturers in China. They would demand a rework if there is something wrong in the process, not until the product is done. I believe the US companies can improve the quality control assessment, ceasing the problem when it first appeared, rather than recalling them when they are already on the shelf.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My father once told me &#8220;A problem that can solved by money is not a problem&#8221;. </p>
<p>I truly believe that the ethical issue we discuss here cannot be solved by money, like other ethical issues. No one can control others&#8217; behavior, not even provide better incentives. </p>
<p>The ethical issue here is more about the standard and norm of the culture than the incentive. There are many Chinese suppliers or manufacturers cutting corners and making &#8220;fake&#8221; products, not only a few. On top of reducing production cost, it seems that it is their normal way of doing things.<br />
I remember seeing the pictures from the post titled,‘The’ Way vs. ‘A’ Way (Japan v China dept) under the December 4th post. The pictures show that the Japanese focus on “The” way of doing things, fulfilling all the proper standards and procedures. In contrast, the Chinese focus on finding “A” way to get things done, not caring about how to accomplish it. </p>
<p>I don’t have a solid solution for the ethical issue in this discussion. It is either starts from better education for the younger generations or posting heavier penalty for the suppliers.<br />
However, I do have suggestions for the quality control. Like what Chris said, the U.S. companies can send representatives to China to assess their factories more regularly, not until something big happened. </p>
<p>Like the US, Japan imports a lot of goods from China. It has less trouble or recall, why? It is because the Japanese set very high standard of their product, and they have close supervision for the manufacturers in China. They would demand a rework if there is something wrong in the process, not until the product is done. I believe the US companies can improve the quality control assessment, ceasing the problem when it first appeared, rather than recalling them when they are already on the shelf.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Mohr</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/will-paying-more-change-behavior-and-make-someone-more-ethical/#comment-3451</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Mohr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Surprisingly, I too agree that increasing prices would by no means create more ethical behavior. It is the same argument that arises with solving world problems. There is a camp that believes if we just had more money to throw at the issue then it will disappear. Not going to happen...

After checking higher prices off the list, we must then determine how to get the suppliers (and everyone else in the supply chain) to act ethically. Let me first state that I think the buyers do share part of the blame for suppliers who are exploiting workers, polluting the environment, or making bad products. A reasonable investigation should be made before contracting with a supplier, to ensure that blatant problems are not occurring. There are instances where the supplier hides their "unethical" behavior well enough that the buyer cannot be expected to have discovered it. But the majority of problems are probably known and just brushed off in an effort to improve the bottom line (no judgment here, that is the goal of management in the best interest of the shareholders).

Another issue we must look at also is by what standards is the behavior "unethical"? Is it because the workers are paid far less than in the United States or a plant produces more pollution than normally allowed? Some of the workers are thankful for even the small amount they are paid because of the utter poverty they have been taken out of (look back to 1978 when the annual income dropped below three dollars per person per year, and the practice of yi zi er shi). I am not condoning these low wages, but the history is an element we must consider if trying to improve the situation further.

My proposal?
Urge consumers to boycott companies who use shady suppliers as a means to force the companies to do more research.
OR
Let these countries continue their economic development in the hope that conditions will improve as they have over the past 30 years.

It seems that until companies make it a priority to make their entire supply chain up to our current "ethical" standards, this is a process that will continue, whether it remains in China or moves to countries like Brazil and others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surprisingly, I too agree that increasing prices would by no means create more ethical behavior. It is the same argument that arises with solving world problems. There is a camp that believes if we just had more money to throw at the issue then it will disappear. Not going to happen&#8230;</p>
<p>After checking higher prices off the list, we must then determine how to get the suppliers (and everyone else in the supply chain) to act ethically. Let me first state that I think the buyers do share part of the blame for suppliers who are exploiting workers, polluting the environment, or making bad products. A reasonable investigation should be made before contracting with a supplier, to ensure that blatant problems are not occurring. There are instances where the supplier hides their &#8220;unethical&#8221; behavior well enough that the buyer cannot be expected to have discovered it. But the majority of problems are probably known and just brushed off in an effort to improve the bottom line (no judgment here, that is the goal of management in the best interest of the shareholders).</p>
<p>Another issue we must look at also is by what standards is the behavior &#8220;unethical&#8221;? Is it because the workers are paid far less than in the United States or a plant produces more pollution than normally allowed? Some of the workers are thankful for even the small amount they are paid because of the utter poverty they have been taken out of (look back to 1978 when the annual income dropped below three dollars per person per year, and the practice of yi zi er shi). I am not condoning these low wages, but the history is an element we must consider if trying to improve the situation further.</p>
<p>My proposal?<br />
Urge consumers to boycott companies who use shady suppliers as a means to force the companies to do more research.<br />
OR<br />
Let these countries continue their economic development in the hope that conditions will improve as they have over the past 30 years.</p>
<p>It seems that until companies make it a priority to make their entire supply chain up to our current &#8220;ethical&#8221; standards, this is a process that will continue, whether it remains in China or moves to countries like Brazil and others.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris White</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/will-paying-more-change-behavior-and-make-someone-more-ethical/#comment-3449</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree that paying suppliers more will not solve the problem of importing tainted products from China.  The dilemma with this situation is that these factories are barely making ends meet in their current situation.  Do you really think that slightly increasing pay to these very poor people will entice them to pay more attention to products or users they will never see?  I also think that in many cases these workers and factories are doing exactly what they have been told by American companies looking to make an extra dollar.  In order to help solve this problem, I believe any extra money that is added to the cost of these goods should not go to the suppliers, but to a relevant government agency that inspects factories and their products before they are shipped overseas.  It is in the best interests of both China and the United States, to ensure that these products are safe for consumer use.  Both countries depend on each other for business.  Unethical behavior will not be prevented by simply increasing wages.  Someone needs to regulate these factories.  I believe the U.S. government inspects imported goods once they reach U.S. ports, but to the best of my knowledge there are no comprehensive inspections performed overseas by government officials.  Does anyone have any information on this?  I have also heard that some U.S. companies have sent representatives to China to assess their factories.  Why aren’t all companies doing this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that paying suppliers more will not solve the problem of importing tainted products from China.  The dilemma with this situation is that these factories are barely making ends meet in their current situation.  Do you really think that slightly increasing pay to these very poor people will entice them to pay more attention to products or users they will never see?  I also think that in many cases these workers and factories are doing exactly what they have been told by American companies looking to make an extra dollar.  In order to help solve this problem, I believe any extra money that is added to the cost of these goods should not go to the suppliers, but to a relevant government agency that inspects factories and their products before they are shipped overseas.  It is in the best interests of both China and the United States, to ensure that these products are safe for consumer use.  Both countries depend on each other for business.  Unethical behavior will not be prevented by simply increasing wages.  Someone needs to regulate these factories.  I believe the U.S. government inspects imported goods once they reach U.S. ports, but to the best of my knowledge there are no comprehensive inspections performed overseas by government officials.  Does anyone have any information on this?  I have also heard that some U.S. companies have sent representatives to China to assess their factories.  Why aren’t all companies doing this?</p>
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		<title>By: Brandi Eng-Rohrbach</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2008/china/will-paying-more-change-behavior-and-make-someone-more-ethical/#comment-3445</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandi Eng-Rohrbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 05:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don't think paying suppliers more will solve the problem.  I mean if you get paid more that just means your profit margin has increased and you get to take home more cash.  You aren't going to change and have a new set of ethics just by getting more money.  I mean is it even ethical to use money to make people do the right thing in the first place?  

I think if you want an ethical supplier, it would be best to go look for one.  Try a new supplier and see if they stay true to their word, if they don't leave them.  There is a lot more suppliers than buyers, so buyers have the power.  I think the only proper motivation for change would be to leave unethical suppliers to show that you are not willing to do business with those that act in such a manner.  This will send a stronger message than giving them a tip in the form of more money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think paying suppliers more will solve the problem.  I mean if you get paid more that just means your profit margin has increased and you get to take home more cash.  You aren&#8217;t going to change and have a new set of ethics just by getting more money.  I mean is it even ethical to use money to make people do the right thing in the first place?  </p>
<p>I think if you want an ethical supplier, it would be best to go look for one.  Try a new supplier and see if they stay true to their word, if they don&#8217;t leave them.  There is a lot more suppliers than buyers, so buyers have the power.  I think the only proper motivation for change would be to leave unethical suppliers to show that you are not willing to do business with those that act in such a manner.  This will send a stronger message than giving them a tip in the form of more money.</p>
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