Traditional India vs. New Age India
May 26th, 2009
Submitted by: Ashley Breneman
On January 24th, women drinking at a bar in Mangalore, India were attacked by a group of approximately 40 men representing Sri Ram Sena, “the Army of Ram.” The women were attacked for being “un-Indian” by being out drinking and dancing with men. The new pub culture in India has been strongly debated across the country on various talk shows. The conservative group known as The Sena appeared on television saying that his group had “stepped in to enforce morality since the government had failed.” The following video describes the attack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJpSfV-UmIY&NR=1
Many have shown opposition for this group, but politicians have made few announcements on the topic. Women and child development minister, Renuka Chowdhury, has criticized the Sena, calling its methods “Talibanization.” Many women across India have protested that they have a right to go to the pubs. Although a lot of the Indian culture is still very conservative, this proves that many women in the Indian society are striving towards a more Western view on women’s rights.
The struggle for equality is more of a battle of culture. From what we have learned up until now, the women in India are treated very respectfully. The issues being brought up by the Sena are resulting from a deviation from the traditional Indian ideals of how a woman should act. These new-age women feel they have a right to go out and drink at the pubs, just as men do. The following debate on CNN-IBN about Mangalore morality and culture shows just how heated these debates have been.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQrYgkBBryw
After learning about these attacks on women, I understand why it is so important that we go out in groups and more importantly, always have a guy with us. It also demonstrates why it is crucial that we understand the cultural differences in both China and India. A bar in India is not the same as a bar in San Luis Obispo, and treating it as so can get any one of us into a great deal of trouble. Hopefully with this knowledge and a little common sense, none of us will encounter any problems. The videos shown reinforce why we should never drink on the streets, and why we should always exhibit caution and respect if we do decide to consume an alcoholic beverage.
The article describing the incident can be read on The New York Times website:
Entry Filed under: Pre-Departure, China, India, Misc.
10 Comments Add your own
1. Lindsay Leaver | January 10th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
First of all, I am surprised that a Hindu group would attack people for drinking and dancing. From the little I know about the religion, I had the impression that non violence was one of the founding principles.
Second, you bring up a great point about women having to behave differently when traveling. When I lived in Kyrgyzstan, a Muslim country, I had to learn to become a little bit subservient in public. I couldn’t make eye contact with men on the street because it was considered an invitation, and I couldn’t speak my mind and opinions as fully as I would hear for fear of shamming my host family. I had to censor my clothes, my speech, and my actions in order to fit in, and I still was extremely radical and western to them.
It is a difficult adjustment and hard to understand as a western and liberated woman, but safety is worth it. We are going to be foreigners in their land, and respecting the culture and customs is going to teach us much more than imposing our ways on them.
2. Jason Silver | January 19th, 2010 at 10:47 am
In such a rapidly growing and changing country such as India, it is hard to balance traditional cultural values with progressive Western evolution. The country has a rich and deep cultural past, but within the last 25 years, India has becoming an economic and social powerhouse. Certain cities are developing more than others, leaving some villages and towns in the 19th century, while Bangalore, Mumbai, and New Delhi are surely in the 21st century.
It is the government’s purpose to have a pulse of its people. The government needs to identify socially and culturally volatile issues and must do something about it, in order to stop rogue groups from exacting violence in the name of their own beliefs. In a world that is increasingly connected, social and cultural values travel quickly from country to country.
Adaptation to new social and cultural norms is a basic evolutionary process, and it must be allowed to happen. Although some people would like to live in a world dominated by rules and rigid structure, change must take place. This is surely a process that will not be solved immediately, as change from traditional values takes much time and widespread acceptance.
3. Phil Hamer | January 23rd, 2010 at 1:38 pm
It may be that India is just not quite ready for the “modern woman.” While Hindu culture does promote a lot of freedom, permissiveness, and nonviolence, the Hindu and Muslim culture of India is still very conservative. I’ve talked with some Indian friends of mine who told me that if a woman is divorced in India it would be next to impossible for her to find someone willing to marry her. There are many other double standard when it comes to women rights.
Hopefully there will be more and more groups trying to fight for women rights and less and less vigilante groups trying to keep women in their subservient place.
4. Jay Ponto | February 28th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
I disagree with Phil in that India might not be ready for the “modern woman.” One cannot expect a transition from old to modern without some disdain, conflict, or ridicule. Unfortunately, in the case of the women at the pub described above, the conflict seems as if it was physical. In a case involving battery, it should be the responsibility of the authorities to step in.
India will go through its phase and, much like the westernized countries, will eventually reach a point where these attacks will (mostly) be a thing of the past after the culture will has adapted.
For now, it would be smart for women in India to westernize their culture slowly for as long as attacks like this are possible. As we have been told in our pre-trip briefings on Indian culture, dressing modestly is imperative (especially for us as foreigners and representatives of Cal Poly) in a transitioning culture.
5. Tim Lynds | March 5th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Why is it that so many people throughout our entire human history have believed that violence is a good way to enforce morality? Are these people using religion and morality as a mask for a deep seeded desired to hurt and control others? Or are they so blinded by their own righteousness and so utterly offended by their victim’s actions that they do not realize that violence is probably the most immoral thing you can do in situations like this? Maybe it’s a little of both. Whatever the reason is, it seems to be built into our human nature and these “righteous” acts of violence continue to occur as long as people are around.
I agree with Jay in that women should probably take is slow, but not too slow. A large shift in social norms takes time, but it also takes people to step up and break the current norms so that people start getting used to how it is going to be in the future. I am sure that the women at the bar in India did not expect to be attacked for having a good time and did not want to become the center of a political debate. Hopefully their wounds will help push India a little closer to full equality for women.
6. Danielle Steussy | March 7th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
This incident is a case of radical conservatism. If the women had known that this would have happened, they wouldn’t have gone out drinking and dancing in the first place. Everywhere we go, including in the United States, there are going to be radicals from each end of the spectrum. These people will express their radical beliefs to varying degrees. In this case, it’s tragic that women are getting beaten because of these men’s extreme beliefs. I definitely agree with Tim in that it seems so hypocritical for people to fight for “moral justice” with violence. It’s sickening.
7. Chase Janvrin | March 13th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
Excellent points on the hypocrisy of fighting for morals. It reminds me of how stupid it struck me that radical environmentalist would burn new houses sending billows of black smoke in the air in the name of the protecting the environment. But no matter what side the radical is on, he’s still radical. But violence, dare I say violence against women in particular, is unacceptable. And this blog above any of the others so far, has driven the point home that things are VERY different in India. And while we may be in a bar that looks like home, it isn’t, and we have to keep our wits and behave with respect where ever we go.
8. Jordan Wente | March 18th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
It seems that through out history the modern woman is never accepted right away. It will be a slow process but in time the social norms will begin to change. I also agree that violence is the complete wrong way to enforce morality. Last time I traveled to India I was told to cover my arms when I was walking on the streets. A professor who frequently visited India had told me of instances where fruit was thrown at women who did not respect the culture and cover up. It was quite a different experience walking on the beach in the hot weather covering my skin from head to toe, but I could tell just by the looks I got that is was the right choice of dress.
On a different note, India is not only conservative in their view towards women but also towards alcohol. Abstinence from drinking is a cultural value of its own. It is thought by many to be a crime or a sin. The country has even experienced periods of prohibition and outlaws any kind of advertising of alcoholic beverages. The consumption of alcohol by women likely played a big role in these attacks as well. Given this I think it is really important to be respectful of these cultural values and conduct ourselves in a polite and reserved manner.
9. Leslie Mann | March 19th, 2010 at 3:53 am
Respecting another’s countries culture and values is of the upmost importance when traveling to foreign lands. Having never traveled internationally before though, I am excited by what I will experience but I too agree that we all must be as modest as possible and put our American beliefs, and dress aside for the two weeks we are traveling the country. The attacks on the women in the pub portray a country still conflicted with traditional beliefs and values against a modern, changing world. Judging by the second video, the heated debate over the topic seems to stem, at least in part, from an age gap. There must be at least 20 years difference between the man defending the attacks and the women who are speaking out against them.
As many have mentioned, it will take time for the country of India to open up to women drinking and dancing with the opposite sex. These rights are still not seen by many and change will not happen overnight. Unfortunately the group, Sri Ram Sena has proclaimed that similar attacks will take place so long as women continue to drink and dance in pubs such as these. Groups like Sri Ram Sena this will continue to exist but it is up to the Indian government to see that the attackers really do get arrested and serve some punishment. Also worth noting, the video brings up a good point that perhaps security in these pubs is needed. If a fight like that breaks out in a bar in America, especially an attack on women, you can bet security guards or bouncers would be handling the situation in a second. It is sad to think that they are necessary to protect the patrons, but perhaps it is the duty of the pub to step in if the government won’t. If politicians continue to be silent on the subject and pubs do nothing to protect their patrons, I feel stories of attacks like this against women will continue to be reality.
10. Matthew Perez | March 19th, 2010 at 8:20 am
I was once told by a very wise individual that the treatment of women in a country is a good indicator of how modern and successful a country will be. Examples of both ends of the spectrum include the United States, a financially stable country where women share the same rights as men, and Saudi Arabia, a mostly poor country where women are hidden from the world, both physically and intellectually. India needs to consider which model for society it wants to follow. From what I have learned, India does promote equality but is still having trouble adjusting to what that entails. We in the United States seem to forget that it was not too long ago that we had similar issues with equality in this country. Although I am not condoning the actions of these radicals, I understand their fear of this quickly changing society. Given these rapid changes in culture, we should be glad that the attacks do not occur more often than they do.
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