Wrap Up Thoughts On Our Chindia Trip - From Professor Carr

July 5th, 2009

We have returned to the USA!

Six cities, over 16 firms, several universities, and numerous cultural excursions in 18 days.

Below you can read about Days 1-17 of our journey. Overall the firm visits this year were excellent.

I view the trip and course as a success, but I define “success” differently than perhaps most would.

First, let me note that this was an excellent group. Collectively, the “got it”. I appreciated their effort, maturity and professionalism on the trip, including their willingness to put self aside for the greater interests of the group.  They collectively worked hard, bucked up when travel bumps appeared, they rolled up their sleeves and were proactive in their learning and the questions they asked. This group was much more active than past groups in practicing some of the simple things of business like the exchange of business cards, networking, and starting to cultivate relationships with people they met abroad. This was great to witness, as it was one of the learning goals for the course.  Collectively, they were outstanding ambassadors for our country, college and university.  I am very proud of them and their efforts.  In many instances, because of the professional way they conducted themselves, they changed the perceptions of Chinese and Indians about Americans in a positive, productive way.  I felt honored to witness such an exchange and it made me feel optimistic about the future.

Some students found they really liked China and/or India. Some discovered they did not. Some students came to see China mainly as the factory of the world; others concluded it’s a market and/or both. I think many came to realize that with respect to India, nice roads and trains do not necessarily make a country — it is the people that make a country. As an example, during their off-the-clock free time, a number of the students went to a nice night club and witnessed Hindi, Punjabi and English music and songs being seamlessly played and connected, as the crowd danced with delight. For me, this is a true symbol and metaphor of India and its strength — the Indians adapt and are self sufficient, lack of infrastructure and all, and they make it happen and succeed, and all while not making a big deal out of their success. We just don’t see this happening as much, in my view, in the West.

Some of the innovators in our student group spotted tremendous business opportunities amidst the chaos of China and India; while some of the traditionalists in the group seemed flustered, stressed and/or intimidated by the chaos one finds in China and India. This trip was a great testing ground for for both subsets.

Sometimes students found that on a trip like this the plane or bus is on time and comfortable; other times not. Some tolerated the food and some even liked it (particularly in India!). Some discovered they could thrive in the difficult physical circumstances that China and India and international business presents; others found that mountain hard to climb.

There is no doubt that throughout this trip we saw ample anecdotal evidence to support Fareed Zakaria’s hypothesis and argument in his excellent, thoughtful, and recently published best selling book, The Post American World; to wit, that it’s not that the USA is in decline so everybody needs to sit back down and stop stressing out about that myth; it’s just that other countries like China and India are on their way up and we need to learn how to deal with it and partner with them.

The health of most held up, but some did become physically ill due to a cold, fever or the food.  I was very thankful nobody was quarantined as we entered mainland China.

All seemed to develop a deeper understanding and appreciation of the sacrifices that overseas employees and their families make when a firm sends them to make headway into a new market and the unique business opportunities that can be found for a forward leaning business thinker in a place like China and India in relation to the West.

We caught a break with the weather in China - it was not as hot as usual and the pollution was not nearly as bad as usual in Beijing. In India, it was fairly hot and humid, and it pushed each of us. We were also lucky in that in Bombay (Mumbai) it did not rain that much, even though it was/is monsoon season there.

The students also picked up several best business practices from the Chinese and Indians that they can bring back with them to the West (e.g., in China and India, the guest, client, etc. are king and attention to them matters; in India, they even have a saying relating to this point - “the guest in your house is a god”). They also caught a good glimpse of the type of people they need to hire who they can send and who can thrive in the markets of China and India, particularly if/when they conclude getting on said plane ride is not for them.

Most students appeared to be humbled and impressed by China and India and their people and talent; while some may return home skeptical; and a very small minority might even return home with a mistaken Western ethnocentric belief they are somehow smarter, better looking/prettier, or superior to the average Chinese or Indian national or manager who speaks broken English (and man, oh man, is this latter minority in for a wake up call someday).  All seemed to reach a deeper understanding of why China and India and the US need to work together to solve future geopolitical, business, societal and environmental problems. Should we elect to not partner with these countries and their peoples to solve the challenges of today and tomorrow, we do so at our peril.

Some students saw China and/or India as needing the USA for some time; while others concluded that China and/or India will in time throw down its crutches of needing the US, begin to walk on its own and in time run and be true contenders on the world stage, possibly even surpassing the US in the economic and geopolitical spotlight. Others described what they found in China, a communist country, as being full of pure, raw, unfettered capitalism at its best (and sometimes its worst); while others saw more of a mixture of a system made up of government monopolies that protects certain players and industries. Comparing “communist” China with hyper-democracy India was an outstanding learning experience. Most seemed to develop an appreciation that whether one likes China and/or India or not, an educated MBA and MS in Industrial Technology needs to better understand how they fit into the global value and supply chain.

In other words, everybody who made the effort had the opportunity to test their talents, beliefs, values, biases, egos and professionalism in some way, shape or form, and the trip was a microcosm of the real world that no textbook, case study or professor in a classroom can teach.

Most of the above are also some of the very types of issues, questions and items we had hoped students would grapple and struggle with when we started to plan this trip a year ago, and I do not believe for a minute that one can teach these types of lessons sitting and staying within the confines of comfortable Cal Poly and San Luis Obispo, California or even the United States for that matter.

I also encourage the readers of this blog to check out the reflective post-trip journal entries that I require each student to make, as over the next few weeks they will load that document onto their personal trip blogs you can/will find on the right hand column of this blog. Good managers and leaders take time to reflect on what they have learned, where they have been, and where they are going. Click and read away as their post trip reflections come in. Having said that, I have learned on this trip that the true power of their learning experience will likely not fully hit them for another year, maybe two or three.

These 32 Orfalea College of Business graduate students were provided with an on-the-ground opportunity to see, ask questions, experience and witness first hand some of the pros and cons of: (1) China — the world’s biggest start-up and turnaround; and (2) India — the tiger struggling to break free from its leash and at the same time finding that it is the very leash holding the proverbial tiger back.

We also had the opportunity to develop a deeper understanding of what globalization is all about and some of the challenges that will face the business firms and governments of tomorrow. Each of us was able to confirm and test some of our preconceived notions about business, capitalism, communism, China, hyper-democratic India, and themselves, and debunk others. These students should also now have the ability to understand and analyze, at a sophisticated and nuanced level, the next front page article they read about China and India and business that appears in the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, New York Times, Business Week, The Economist, et al. and be able to understand why it’s a front page story and be able to separate fact from global legend and urban lore. This ability to do so will set these students apart from the average American and businessperson, and even most of our politicians, who blather on and on about China or India when they know nothing about it, they have never even been there to see these places for themselves, and/or they could not find said places on the map if their lives depended on it.

Of course, how, when and whether this group of future business leaders leverage the knowledge and experience gained through this trip during the next phase of their lives is up to them. At the Cal Poly Orfalea College of Business, I can represent we have done our best in this regard. I am confident they will make the best of it. This is a talented group of young men and women. They give me great hope for the future.

A big, big shout out and thank you to all who helped us on this trip. THANK YOU! Again, our firm visits this year were top notch and incredibly engaging.

As for me, I am bone tired and jet lagged. But a nice thing about this trip for me is that I always feel a deeper love for home — meaning the USA, SLO and my house and family — each time I return.  Traveling abroad for such a long period of time also, as the saying goes, “helps me remember who I sometimes forget to be”, and I am thankful for such a crash review and reminder course.  The next few weeks I plan to get away from work and spend time with my family. I also plan to take a break from China and India and blogging for the next month and I don’t plan to make many (possibly any!) posts during that time.

Until then, thanks again to this wonderful group of 32 students.  They made us proud at Cal Poly.  And they were a lot of fun to travel with.

Entry Filed under: Beijing, Shanghai, China, India, Mumbai, New Delhi, Suzhou

10 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Logan J Travis  |  July 6th, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    Professor Carr,

    Thank you so much for the opportunity to study Chinese and Indian history, culture, and ambition. You along with Jay Singh, Neetu Bali, and all our gracious hosts gave us a greater experience than we could imagine and infinitely more than our domestic MBA competition. As for our graduate brothers and sisters abroad - especially those from MET - thank you for setting a higher standard. Prepare yourselves though, 32 members of the Cal Poly Chindia ‘09 Crew will see you in the global business arena soon enough. Don’t expect us to hold back either; we now know you’re up to our challenge.

    This trip was exciting, enlightening, and exhausting. It is also intensely difficult to relay to the inexperienced. India cultivates a beautiful chaos: a country packed to the brim, suffering through the growing pains of modernization. Yet stop any man or woman on its frightening streets and you’ll confront passion able to thrive under any adversity. That same drive flourishes in China with its own unique flavors of certainty and reverence. Yet, if I could ask just one more question of you - my accomplished professors and leaders - it would be, “How do I teach friends, family, colleagues, or anyone at home what we learned without dragging them half-way around the world to see first-hand?”

    I cannot measure the importance of conveying that knowledge. In many ways we in the U.S. are already many steps behind Chinese and Indian business practices. We may also lack the will to catch/pass them. However, I still hold a great deal of hope for us and our future success. After all, it took less than three weeks to awaken the ambitious spirit in each of us 32 graduates. So armed we will work wonders.

    Thank you again for leading us to such riches of mind and soul. We will always remember the lessons learned and seek to leverage them at every opportunity.

  • 2. Jimmy Spann  |  July 6th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    As one of the students who also just returned home from this trip, I am a little exhausted and still rubbing my eyes at what I have just seen over the past three weeks. I learned alot and cannot wait to go back to China sometime in the future. I also want to thank Professor Carr, Professor Singh and his wife Neetu, for all the planning that went into this trip. I had a great time and at first I was skeptical about the trip, but now I wouldn’t change my decision to take this trip. I think that it has been an eye opening experience and I think that it has been my favorite class at Cal Poly by far.

  • 3. Chris Carr  |  July 7th, 2009 at 8:01 am

    Jimmy and Logan,

    Thanks for the kind feedback.

    Logan, you raise a good question. My own feeling is that China and India can’t be explained or taught. Experiential (i.e., go there and see them for yourself) learning is required.

    That said, here are some things I have learned to use to try and explain said places and business environments to those who have not been there, who don’t plan to go, or who are unable to go due to cost, time, etc.

    1. Some comments and questions about these places are so far out there it’s better to just ignore them. For example, one person recently asked me, “Why do you take students to China which is anti-Christian?” Said comment was so silly, misinformed and self-serving that I just chuckled and ignored it. I.e., pick your battles. Some people you won’t change, educate or assist. Don’t waste your time or breath on those folks.

    2. Try to speak of emerging markets like China and india in a respectful, favorable, optimistic and yet balanced (here is the good and bad) way. In time, curious people will seek to learn more and find what they need to know.

    3. Gently push back when people say things about these places that are well intentioned but you know are wrong. For example, challenge them and ask, “How do you know that?”, or “Why do you say or feel that way?” or “Have you ever been there or plan to go?” or “On what evidence do you base the statement you just made?”. You might suggest they also read Zakaria’s Post American World or Khana’s Billions of Entrepreneurs book. In time, the people who really question and really do seek life long learning will find what they need to know or seek about such emerging markets as a China or India, both the good and the bad.

    I enjoyed traveling with you. You also ask very insightful and tightly worded questions.

    Prof. Carr

  • 4. Alex vanDalen  |  July 15th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    What a ride,
    Thanks to all who helped plan and execute this amazing learning experience, as well as the many companies that took time from their busy schedules to host and educate us. We all survived and, as I’m quite sure, we have all grown both personally and intellectually in new and unexpected ways.

    Though the students had fears about everything from pig flu quarantines, to malaria, to drunken lecherous expats, everything came out brilliantly in the end.

    For me the journey has not yet ended, as I am still in China finding and exploring business and cultural opportunities on the daily. I look forward to both reading and sharing any interesting discoveries with this blog and you all in the future

    Personal thanks to Dr. Carr, Jay Singh, and Neetu for their planning and tireless work all along. May you all have a great summer and much health wealth and happiness in the coming year.

  • 5. Vikas Joshi  |  July 21st, 2009 at 8:47 am

    Hello all!

    Let me begin by saying that it was a pleasure to have you all here in India. Dr. Carr is right when he says that you all were great brand ambassadors. I have hosted groups before but this year I was greatly impressed by you all. I saw all of you more open to the challenges and the chaos that can be thrown at someone who comes to India for the first time. You all were all more adaptive no matter what you had to face. In today’s world these are great abilities to have.

    I am sure you all will go on and have great futures. I hope this trip contributed in someway or the other to all of you. I wish you the best in life and try and stay in touch(I am on Morgan’s facebook list).

    Thanks and Regards

    Vikas

  • 6. Chris Carr  |  July 21st, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    Vikas,

    Thanks for the check in, kind words, and all your help in India!

    Chris.

  • 7. Mark Wegemer  |  September 2nd, 2009 at 7:43 am

    I wanted to take the time to properly thank everyone involved in this trip including the students. It was a marvelous experience and a life changing trip. I appreciate hard work and dedication that Dr. Carr, Dr. Singh, and Neetu Bali in order to plan such an exhaustive and extensive trip. Because of this trip, it has opened my eyes to the world and my desire to see more. My girlfriend is currently heading to France and Italy and it seems that traveling is becoming more and more desirable for colleagues. We have all been in school for so long that we want to experience the world!

    Vikas, thank you for helping us out in India and being a great teacher as you have experienced so much. Thank you also to the student ambassadors Riddhi and Kamal for teaching us a thing or two about Indian culture and the students in it. I greatly recommend this trip to future students in the Cal Poly Master’s program in the Orfalea College of Business. Thank you again Dr. Carr.

  • 8. Chandani  |  September 3rd, 2009 at 8:27 am

    As a Cal Poly Business Alum, its great to read about the amazing opportunities Cal Poly students have to experience! Poly never fails to “learn by doing”. Thanks for organizing such a great thing!
    PS. Dr. Carr, I took your Business Law class some years ago and because of the realization I had from taking that course, I am studying to get my JD/MBA, so thanks!

  • 9. Chris Carr  |  September 3rd, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    Mark and Chandani,

    Thanks for the check in and kind words.

    Best,

    - Prof. Carr

  • 10. Broc Smith  |  October 4th, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    American Architect Writes Fun Book about Doing Business in China.

    “The Tragic Kingdom, or; “Prisoner in a Chinese Theme Park”, (found on all bookstore websites such as amazon.com, borders, etc), is a behind-the-scenes look into the field of design and build in China. The book is a profile of the personalities, culture, and psychology of the world’s most massive looming superpower as seen through the eyes of an ex-pat American.
    I have witnessed a formidable decade in which China has commanded a modern presence on the world stage and have participated in the planning, designing, and building of mega-theme parks in Beijing, world-class aquariums in Shanghai, gigantic malls in the Pearl Delta, resorts in Tibet, and panda relocation projects in the foothills of the Himalayas.
    The stories and themes found in The Tragic Kingdom spring from one man’s journey. At the same time I believe they disclose truths about a globalization that eventually will impact every economy, lifestyle, and person on the planet.

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The posts, comments and/or views expressed on this trip blog, whether by a Cal Poly student or faculty or an outside guest to the blog, do not necessarily reflect the policies or views of Cal Poly, the Orfalea College of Business (OCOB), any of the OCOB's graduate programs and/or other students who participate in the trip.